1g 2.0 Turbo Kit (4G63 engine)

[verserv]

Well I am currently working on a turbo kit for my 94 1g nt. Since no one wants to make a kit im going to do it myself. From some studies i think its possible to get the 1g nt into a turbo with the same if not more as a gsx. It seems very plausable from my research. Anyone who is intrested in this kit plese right on here. If I acomplish it succesfully I will seel it to everyone or at least give out a DIY faq on prts and install. Show support if you really want to see one built.(Please, I dont want to hear negative comments that this cant be done, im doing this for the 1g NA commmunity and if all i hear is negativity i will assume that no one wants a 1g turbo kit)

[Ghoste]

Us 92-94 n/t people need a TURBO UPGRADE KIT!

Is there any possible way you can slap a kit on a 1.8?

RIGHT ON BRO!

-Ghoste

[verserv]

i no very little about th 1.8 but hey, the more support the merry. If i see enough people who want it done on a 1.8 i will figure it out.
Keep the support coming guys.

[Ghoste]

I know all of you 2.0 n/t & 1.8 n/t want to turbocharge!! :)

REPLY PEOPLE!

..Ghoste

[verserv]

well good news. rough estimates put the BHP at ~205. This is with only 50% efficiency in the compressor and the intercoller efficiency. No water to air intercooler either. 8psi boost only. This seems to be very probable now to create a kit for the 1g nt 2.0(for now) with some good power.

Spread the word, get support from all nt dsm folks on this.

[Blade_93GS]

I'd love a turbo on my car! I've tried it myself but haven't got the time right now to really do what it takes to make it successful. I'm glad to hear someone is close though, and I would gladly buy the kit when you get it done! Keep up the great work as it is sure to be worth it man! Keep us updated!

[londerville]

Hi,
I've been looking for one ever since i bought my car. I'd buy one from ya if you can do it. Any idea on the price it will cost?

Jason

[verserv]

i want to get cost at 1500 or less with install instructions. i cant gaurantee this till i see where and how much i can get parts for. since im in the design phase it is all hard to say. Remember the more people that want it the cheaper i can sell it when its done

[londerville]

Hi,
I got another question. Will the turbo be included in the kit?

Thanx
Jason

[verserv]

wi want to inlude EVERYTHING. ALL PARTS AND INSTRUCTIONS. A tru bolt on kit for 1g na

[londerville]

Thats cool. Email me with progress if ya have time.

londerville@yahoo.com

Thanx
Jason

[verserv]

Alright i have a question
More Horespower for more cost about 210 for 1500+
Less horsepower for less cost about 185 for 1500-

which would you prefer, i will make the 210 hp for mine but i can do one for whichever gets the most votes.

remember these kits will be like having a stock gst. doing upgrades to intake and exhaust will add even more hp. And possibly i will set up a way to increase boost for more hp, but i want fast spool up time.

Show support guys

[londerville]

I'd go with the 210 hp. It will give us more oompf to begin with.

Hey do you have yahoo messenger or aol im? I'm on right now and if ya wanna talk that would be cool.

Jason

[roadpie4u]

Definatly setup the 210HP. That's for sure. I was looking into upgrading my 1gNT to a turbo, by using stock parts from a Tsi like the headers, ECU, fuel pump, rail, injectors sort of deal. I have the free mods done, and I'm stuck with an A/T, and then a pacesetter system (not great but cheap) and I'm running some decent power, but have been wanting a turbo setup. I however also do not like the notion of not telling my insurance company, as I know they'll seriously do me up the @$$ for rates. I dont trust myself on designing such a complicated setup, as for the 1.8L - you can turbo it :) But you'd be boosting the old fashoined way - you cant stick a turbo ECU in, so you'd have to get a ping sensor setup, then an AFC and a manual boost controller (In dash if possible) as that little engine cant handle much boost off the line.

I'm personally trying to design an electrically controlled setup using capacitors to slowly sap off power from the battery and then when a dash button is pushed, it discharges the capacitors as well as using the battery feed to power a twin chambered 2 turbine setup - and I might be able to hit 4 or 5 psi of boost (I dont know for how long, as I'd need to get the turbines spinning atleast 10k-15k RPM)so you can imagine that'll take some doing and a lot of power, but I'm also looking at miniature industrial 4" turbines to power this thing, and so far it looks like a 100% metal setup, but I dont know yet. So far I've been doing research and looking at different items, and I may be able to get the boost and setup working as a combined Ram/Cold air induction, so if I can get it to work, it may be a pretty simple 'drop-in' setup. But if you can get that turbo deal working - more power to ya! The NT DSMs have plenty of options open, but sometimes Boost is just too much fun to have!


Which I think will hold me over till I can get a GSX.

[verserv]

i think the 1.8 would be harder than the 2.0, too much manual stuff. But hey if it works cool. As soon as i get money i will begin building.

[Trevor K]

The 1.8L would probably need a lot of custom work.

I've seen a 2.0L NT turbo-charged, and the guy said he did it, installed by himself with used parts, for around 1000 CANADIAN. He even put out a parts list too...

Trevor

[Ghoste]

I will be very happy :)

I will probably be the first 1.8L on boost , so you will
be sponsored on my car.

-Ghoste

[verserv]

I would like to thank everyone for the help so far on my project. I am getting technical data left and right and some good support so far. It looks like i might be able to increase psi without safety issues or extra costs, so i may get hp out of it.
The project is now been named to "Senoj Turbocharging"

Thanx everyone, i will update as regularly as possible to keep intrest.

[Ghoste]

What are ya going to call the 1.8L project? :)

..sorry if im pushing you :)

-Ghoste

[verserv]

project "pray to god":)

[Ghoste]

:)

Project Whistle :)

[verserv]

ill try but the 1.8 requires alot more work to turbo

[Ghoste]

You do this , and Ill put whatever project name you want on my car :) but of course you will have to give me a discount or gimme a free trial :)

-Ghoste

[verserv]

lol ill help you out, youve been one of the best supporters so far. The only prob for 1.8's is i need a test car and dont have one.
P.S. the 2.0 will get maximum turbo boost from ~2500 and on so you will have much faster response than anormal gst it looks(dont qoute me yet, these are just preliminary tech data)

[verserv]

maximum boost from 2500 to redline i mean

[Trevor K]

Are you going to go with a 1G AT turbo to reduce the lag?

Ghoste - Find out if the exhaust manifold off a 2.0L and 1.8L is the same (Doubt it, but never know). If it is then a 1.8L turbo wouldn't be too hard to do. Tuning would be a whole other problem though...

Trevor

[verserv]

im doing a 2g turbo for better response time.

[verserv]

the 1.8 is a different engine technically so its kinda tough

[Super Talon]

ok here is my input... here are the things you need...

Throddle Body
intake filter
MAS
turbo
IC
tubes
new oil lines and filter mount
new vaccum lines
headers
ECU
wire harness's
boost guage
any one have any thing else...


Also im officialy volenteering as a prototype testor... I will pay cost for all the parts... Infact i will be the first to install a FMIC and 24g turbo...

[LaFemmeDSM]

Probably won't need the throttle body and intake filter unless you don't already have a K&N. The exhaust manifold from a turbo 2.0 will fit on the 2.0 N/T but someone should check into it on the 1.8 it would be so much simpler that way. (or the 1.8 will have to go with a custom manifold) Oil sqirters, this is what is lacking on both N/T engines.
Stock boost on the 14b or the T25 are both 10 psi so you would probably have to look into something that would limit it. (like the wastegate on the 2g Hahn kit)
Oil return line would just get drilled in the oil pan.
If I think of anything else I'll repost...

[londerville]

Hi,
verserv, are you going to be using a manual tranny car or an auto, or doesn't it matter?

Jason

[verserv]

jezz lots of responses. wow. well hopefully i will only have to replace fuel injectors(on the at only i think) ECU misc. exhaust stuff. mas should be a prob but will see. Throttle boy should not be a prob at all. I'm only doing 8 psi also. Hey if you want to be a tester cool.
Stats on my car just so people know what im using:
94 eclipse 2.0 dohc w/k&n filter and only intake mods(all free) for performance. It is a manual transmission.
And does anyone know if the mt nt use 390cc injectors like the at turbo? Any one in upstate new york(near Albnay) I need to see a 1.8 to see how i can turbo it(i know little of the engine construction). Thanx for support guys.

Just so you know guys, you already have the idea of this kit so dont doubt its possibility. I am currently working with some other dsm'ers who have done turbo swaps, and even one fellow who did what i did. Thanx again for support. I will make a website someday(when school allows) to list parts and progress.

[Ghoste]

http://www.ghoste.com/P4170048.jpg

http://www.ghoste.com/P4170049.jpg

http://www.ghoste.com/P4170051.jpg


1.8 Wiring (car with no engine)

http://www.ghoste.com/P4170054.jpg


Hope this helps.

-Ghoste

[dsm93talon]

here's what you will need for the 2.0 kit

-throttle body + elbow
-tap a hose barb into the intake manifold (for BOV line)
-uic hose
-lower ic hose
-stock sidemount ic
-turbo cams (at or mt depending on your tranny)
-stock 1g exhaust manifold and downpipe
-t25 with o2 housing
-turbo ecu + wiring harness (a certain part of it)
-390cc turbo at injectors
-turbo fuel pump
-turbo mas (not sure on this yet)
-upgraded clutch if you have mt (act 2100 at least)
-turbo fwd oil pan
-knock sensor
-injector resistor pack

that's all i'm aware of right now, i'm probably missing something as i dont have my list of stuff... but that's the basics.

[verserv]

well new data. Looks like stock internals might only be able to handle 7 psi. So about 180 hp(which can off course be increased by intake and exhaust mods) if im stuck with
using 7psi, i might also switch turbo to the 13b for better response at lower psi. More updates as they come along

[verserv]

the turbo kit for the 1.8 will most likely not even be able to hit 175hp even with an intercooler it will be tough.

[strype]

Sweet man, I was actually thinking of turning my
91' Laser RS N/T into a turbo ;) but wasn't quite sure
what i'd need. For the parts i suggest visiting salvage yards. Best spot to get stuff. cheap and usually pretty
good. also are you going to be putting a graphical set of instructions on the net? or even the instructions? for the FREE do it yerselfer? i'll check back later
also i'm working on gauge faces for 1g dsm's.
as the black cat custom gauges are too damn expensive. so i'll be making some templates and instructions on how to build them for yerself. it will be quite easily done.
i have a few ideas. i'll keep you posted aswell.

also, verserve where are you located?

[verserv]

i am located in albany n.y. I will probably do 2 things. One sell a kit w/ diagramed instructions and stuff(For as close to what i can buy it for). Two just do a parts list and instructions on line for free.

[colonelfox]

I was thinking of doing the same thing instead of a complete engine swap on my Talon. I want to build up the engine a bit first. I'm still debating between that and a swap though. Of course I have minimal knowledge of engines, but I'm willing to try and my step dad's a mechanic, so I can get his lazy ass to come over and help if I need it :) Go here http://www.sn95.com. Ignore the fact that it's a Mustang site. It gave me quite a few ideas to start with, and the idea is basically the same.

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by strype
i'll check back later
also i'm working on gauge faces for 1g dsm's.
as the black cat custom gauges are too damn expensive. so i'll be making some templates and instructions on how to build them for yerself. it will be quite easily done.
i have a few ideas. i'll keep you posted aswell.

also, verserve where are you located?
I made my own guage faces, and it isn't exactly easy. Very time consuming. It took me a good solid week and a half to get it close to right right with paint shop pro, and Adobe Photoshop. I'm still not completely satisfied. There's an ass load of artifacts if you just edit a scanned image of the stock faces like I did, and they look terrible if you use don't remove them. Plus you'll get a lot of shadows if you don't take the time to cut out all the numbers, and black out the back. It's worth the effort in the end though.

[verserv]

if you do modify the stock engine just do a straight turbo swap, its cheaper, the trick ist to use stock internals

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by verserv
if you do modify the stock engine just do a straight turbo swap, its cheaper, the trick ist to use stock internals
Not sure I understand you boss. Are you saying I should just buy a turbo engine and all, or build up a stock NT, and bolt on a stock turbo and the components. From what I understand, there's a few things needed to get a NT to handle boost, but a complete engine swap is a time consuming pain in the ass. I can get a low mile stock NT engine pretty cheap, but a stock turbo and all the necessary parts will cost considerably more, unless I buy a wrecked DSM. With a wreck though, you never can be sure the engine wasn't damaged in the process. I just wanna get it done as easily as possible, and as cheap as it can be. I can do most of the work myself, but it's gonna take ma a bit longer with my lack of experience.

[verserv]

i mean is the nt engine needs a different compression to be really effective. The engine internals can only handle 7-8 psi on the nt because of the high compression. i am seeting up a bolt on turbo kit for the 2.0 nt's

[colonelfox]

Aaaahhhh, I see. I'm still debating what I'll do, if anything, but good luck. Piss off the stock turbo guys :)

[Blade_93GS]

Come on yall, don't let this thread die on us! How is the kit going Verse? Any idea on when you'll get this done? I'm sure your working your butt off, so I'd like to say thanks man! Hopefully everything will work out! Let us know what's up!
Salvador

[verserv]

Well, some bad news. The kit is on hiatus. I tore the ligaments in my ankle and cannot walk let alone drive. I am still looking over the best parts for the project. With any luck I can at least start to walk a little sometime next week but who knows(when a doctor says you would have been better off breaking your ankle its hard to say when you will be better). I am working out all options and I am figuring out other possibilites for than a turbo kit, but a how to on a turbo kit will be made for sure.

[Junoon]

just a thought.. as some of the 2gnt members have done that while boosting.. but not too sure about 4g63's.

[91TalonEsi]

i have done this swap.u can either buy a turbo kit or u can build one.find some one who has a blown turbo engine 1g or 2g.take all the parts of it to make urs a turbo.if its a 1g take the oil pan,if its a 2g u have to tap ur oil pan.alll u have to do is run low boost no more than 10 psi from what i have been told.then u just have to do somethin bout a intercooler.u might as well go ahead and put a front mount on.u will also need to get a fuel pressure regulator or turbo ecu to use with the turbo injectors.

[1994eclipse]

someone said the N/T have 9.0:1 compression and it can only handle 7-9 psi of boost. it seems to me that it can handle more, but i'm not sure. the civic si's have a little more than 10.0:1 compression and i know for sure they run a higher psi of boost when people turbo them. i am very interested someone brought up this topic, i would very much like to turbo my car any day. good luck

[bluedragondsm]

id be down for a kit

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by 1994eclipse
someone said the N/T have 9.0:1 compression and it can only handle 7-9 psi of boost. it seems to me that it can handle more, but i'm not sure. the civic si's have a little more than 10.0:1 compression and i know for sure they run a higher psi of boost when people turbo them. i am very interested someone brought up this topic, i would very much like to turbo my car any day. good luck
You can raise the boost, but you need a lot of hard core tuning. One little mistake, and boom. Because the pistons are higher compression, you get the same amount of power with less boost. That's why those hondas run 7-9 psi, and can make 250+ at the wheels with some tuning. You don't really need to raise the boost IMO.

[verserv]

I said 7-9 psi. With turbo calc i arrived at that number, even ask the nt guys who turboed theres. I bet they really arent clearing 9n on stock internalls.

[colonelfox]

I don't know of any DSM turbo NT's running that high, but it's reasonably common for the honda guys.

[verserv]

7psi is reasonableon a 4g63 nt. But 9psi has to be done carefully.

[Iceman21]

I would be down for the kit and I have also seen that the ones who have turboed their NT's are only running about 7-9 psi.

On my end though I would upgrade pistons to the 95 pistons when I do the swap cause the car needs a rebuild anyway.

Lemme know if there is anything I can for you. I won't even beg for sponsorship ;)

1500 is a bit more than what you could do if you went searching for the parts yourself but, hey if you don't want to waste the time and energy (finding the parts are a pain in the ass) buy the damn kit.

Oh, yeah from what I remember in my research you will need the 450's off a MT turbo 1g, not totally sure but I remember someone telling me that.

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by Iceman21
I would be down for the kit and I have also seen that the ones who have turboed their NT's are only running about 7-9 psi.

On my end though I would upgrade pistons to the 95 pistons when I do the swap cause the car needs a rebuild anyway.

Lemme know if there is anything I can for you. I won't even beg for sponsorship ;)

1500 is a bit more than what you could do if you went searching for the parts yourself but, hey if you don't want to waste the time and energy (finding the parts are a pain in the ass) buy the damn kit.

Oh, yeah from what I remember in my research you will need the 450's off a MT turbo 1g, not totally sure but I remember someone telling me that.
I soent almost that much turboing mine. A kit with very detailed instructions (especially for the wiring, because it was a little confusing) would be worth the money. 390's off of an AT will work too. Someone here used them in their swap if I'm remembering right.

[Albert]

Turbo 1.8L has already been done down here in Hawaii. A 92 1.8L Eclipse...custom manifold...T3 turbo, deltagate, blitz BOV, some other things im probably missing too....runs a mighty 2psi, cant open the BOV...I knew the guy who originally had it made for his car...dunno if it was the the tuning or what. He was afraid to crank the boost on stock internals because he might blow the motor. Intercoolerless might I add...I dont wanna be a prick...but it was just not impressive, not to say that its not worth the time...With enough effort and tuning, it could be just fine.

But his....

was not.

Al

[colonelfox]

That is just sad. I wouldn't even think of trying it on a stock block 1.8. It's not really that big of a deal to crack the head, and swap the pistons. Time consuming, yes, but worth the effort. If you're going to do it, do it right.

[talon1230]

I would just like to say that i am very interested in the turbo kit for the n/t dsm....keep it coming...i am willing to spend just about anything on a kit for my car. Please keep me informed my address is mosh1230@aol.com...thanks a lot

[LORDPAXIN]

well,
if this kit is gonna cost up from 1500
on ebay there is 1990 - 92 turbo awd cars for 400 - 600 dallars that are worn out, so you pay 500 for a car, and 1250 for a rebuild kit (prices at local garadge) and you are comming close to the same price, and you would have all the boost of stock Turbo,

but hell yea, ill buy a turbo kit!

[JDawg92GS]

I'm definitely in for a turbo kit. I've been looking for a bolt on turbo kit forever, but could not find one. Count me in

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by JDawg92GS
I'm definitely in for a turbo kit. I've been looking for a bolt on turbo kit forever, but could not find one. Count me in

Extreme Motorsports used to sell a turbo kit for the 1G 2.0 NT engines a whileeeeee back. It was pretty expensive, but you might want to try giving them a call and see if they can put one together for you guys.:)

[cdstalon]

I seem to remember that too. I think it was like 3400 though.

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by cdstalon
I seem to remember that too. I think it was like 3400 though.

Yeap, near that price from what I remember...:(

[Iceman21]

Damn, that is a whole lot of money. I would smack someone for going that route, when a AWD DSM can be had in good condition for that kinda cash

[xhypno]

I have been working on a kit for my 94 es talon with the 4g63. I have done all the math, at least 30 times.

If you go with a smaller turbine and a medium sized compressor. You be able to spool up at about 1000 rpm sooner then the 2g gst's, that would put it spooled up at about 2200 rpm. It will give the car alot more low end torque and a higher opertunity for more hp. I have done the math and come up, with the best unit to use.

It would be a mitsu td25b, smaller then the t-25, but potential to produce more boost (more stable boost) then the 14b and many larger 16g's. But best of all a new one from mitsu, only costs about 500 dollars, has built in wastegate, and includes oil cooler (all piping needed for cooler)

An Alamo Side mount intercooler (cools about 8x better then the stock smic and many medium fmic's) priced at 395 dollars.

Mandrel bent aluminum piping would be 150 dollars.

A stock BOV from a gst, new 190 dollars, used 65 dollars.

A MBC 35 dollars.

Stronger Drive Axles 275 dollars

ACT 2800 Clutch 300 dollars.

Exhuast manifold and o2 housing, including downpipe, new 200, used 80

500 500
395 395
150 150
190 65
35 35
275 275
300 300
200 80
---------------------
2045 1800

This is a kit, that when installed on a 2.0l 4g63 with the higher compression pistons (9.0:1), will produce a dynoed 285 hp at the front wheels.

I put one of these kits on my friends 93 rs eclipse and that is the exact hp produced on a dyno jet.

I hoped this helped!

Xhypno

[Iceman21]

Talk about being left hanging :confused:

[Blackboost]

xhypno

Do you have a picture of that turbo (td25)???

[xhypno]

I don't have a pic of it at the moment, I will try and get one and have it up as soon as possible, but let me warn all of you, it is not a big turbo. It was designed by mitsu for there small circut cars in asia. It is capable of produceing 30psi of boost (but who needs it), the reason why I used it in my kit, for my friend, is that it spools up, it produced 5psi of boost at 1400rpm, and full boost by 2200rpm. My friend now runs at moroso, a 12.3 1/4 mile.

This turbo would make an awsome upgrade, even for the turbo models, just imagine lower compression pistons and bigger rods. This turbo pushing 15psi by 2200-2400rpm. I have done the math, that would mean 11's if tunned right.

xhypno

If you have any questions about what I used in the kit, e-mail me at xhypnotyst@usermail.com, I will give you the complete run down on everything in it.

[dsm93talon]

did you just come to this board from speedoptions or something? gimme a break.

[cdstalon]

lol, tell him don, tell him....

[mkjc211]

Currently running n/a 4g63 pistons in my turbo engine, stock rods, big 16g with 720cc injectors running 16-18 psi. Have a buddy running a n/a bottom end with turbo head running 22psi. N/A and turbo engine have slight differences. Personally I like the n/a pistons, they fit perfectly on the 1g rods. Lag has decreased and spools much faster, hitting full boost about 3300rpms. However seeing a little more knock than the super low compression stock pistons. You can definately run more than 7-9psi on N/A engines, considering you have the supporting mods.

[cdstalon]

What kind of tuning do you have done to run that much boost? I've heard that the NT pistons have weak ring lands that won't hold up to that much...

[eclipse1gen]

I must say that this thread is very amusing.

[cdstalon]

Pray tell, why is that?

[Iceman21]

Originally posted by cdstalon
Pray tell, why is that?

Yeah, what do you find amusing in here?

I see nothing but a bunch of people making constructive conversation on making a kit of us NTers.

[cdstalon]

I think this is a pretty neat and involved process. For those of us who have turboed ours (I love boost! =) I consider it to be more modded than other cars out there. Sure, an original turbo with exhaust, intake, and a MBC will probably still creep on me, but my mods are more extensive so I take pride in the fact that I am almost keeping up, you know?

[Iceman21]

Totally agree with you Chris, now if I could only find the cash :rolleyes:

[cdstalon]

Yeah, I would recommending have some extra cash before you start it. I caused a few problems in mine that I had to fix, and then other things that just needed to be done that I kinda forgot about =).

[Iceman21]

I followed your progression, and I must say I hope you are happy with your results. Your car put you through quite a bit of pain, in the literal sense ;)

[eclipse1gen]

I hope it didnt sound like i was bashing you guys. i modded my 92 laser RS for 2 years until i got my talon. I think turbocharging the NTs is a good idea if you really want to make them go fast. No offense, it just seems that its not as practical taking this route and the end result wont be as good. Thats just my opinion though, i commend anyone who is modding.

[mkjc211]

Originally posted by cdstalon
What kind of tuning do you have done to run that much boost? I've heard that the NT pistons have weak ring lands that won't hold up to that much...

The N/t piston and the turbo7.8:1 piston are both cast pistons and almost exactly alike. The only real difference is that the turbo has a dish and the N/A piston is almost flat accross the top hence the higher compression. I personally think that they are better that the 2g turbo piston. Currently i have a TMO stage 2 ecu, tmo datalogger, and a SAFC.

[cdstalon]

That's cool. Obviously I have the NT pistons in mine, and I also have a Pocketlogger with a SAFC on the way. I'm interested in some of your tuning advice and I really like the idea of turning up the boost, as long as it can be done safely, that's the key part.

Your car put you through quite a bit of pain, in the literal sense

That might have been Josh (colonelfox) you were thinking about. I think he liked dropped the tranny or engine block on his foot and broke his toe or something like that.

[Iceman21]

Originally posted by cdstalon


That might have been Josh (colonelfox) you were thinking about. I think he liked dropped the tranny or engine block on his foot and broke his toe or something like that.

Damnit Chris, my bad, I had a feeling that I was talking about a different build up, I have read about your build up a bit though

[colonelfox]

It was a tranny on my big toe, and it broke. A red hot piece of grinding wheel when I ported my exhaust manifold right in my f'ing eye. I got a scar on my eyeball now too :D Looking back, I'm not so sure it was worth the immense pain, thousands of dollars, 6 months without my car, and 2 engines I got no use from before they shitted out on me.
The new engine goes in tomorrow. Will this finally be the engine that is capable of turning my car into an 11 second at 125 MPH+ break the tires loose in 4th, smoke em at every stop light, and wreck it into a tree from the immense torque steer, grocery getter? Third engine is a charm I hope.

[verserv]

If it makes you feel better i crushed my finger(not broken though) on the rear diff. when i changed the fluid today. Good luck with number 3!

[cdstalon]

Yeah good luck with that one Josh, I wish you the best. Things seem to be finally working out with mine too, I might go run it soon. I'm hoping for 15s baby! A meager start to a 14 second monster!!!! hehe.

Iceman, thanks. It makes me feel important to know that someone has been following my progress! Let me know of any changes with your car.

[Bumper2Bumper]

Hmm, well I'm tempted with this DIY kit. I was searching around and found something about fuel cut. I heard that it cuts out around "160 hp". My problem is that this kit won't be legal here in CA, so I'll have to convert my car back to N/A to pass a smog check. I don't really wanna swap ECU's (and harnesses) everytime. Would an AFC or AVC help me get around this? What should I do about this? Thanks guys.

[cdstalon]

Why wouldn't it be legal? If you swap the MAS's also, you shouldn't be hitting this "fuel cut"

[Iceman21]

Originally posted by cdstalon
Iceman, thanks. It makes me feel important to know that someone has been following my progress! Let me know of any changes with your car.

Yeah Chris, I will let you know if and when my car progresses :rolleyes: Right now I am having a hard enough time finding the cash to get the tie rods done. :mad:

Hopefully, I can scrape up the cash before the shootout, or it will be one long and slow drive to OH :eeek: <---man I love that smiley

[Bumper2Bumper]

CDS, the CARB mod guidelines are pretty strict. I mean, I failed a visual test because I was running an open K&N. I didn't have the sticker you get when you buy the whole FIPK. In this case, putting any turbo equipment on the NT motor is illegal. So why don't I just put the full turbo motor in? Well, even after I did a full swap(longblock, ECU, stock IC plumbing, etc.), I'd have to go to a state ref to see if the engine swap would be ok. Even at that, I'm not sure that I'd pass because of the turbo motor and NT tranny. A full swap would be more money/time/effort than I'm interested in. So, I'd just want to keep as much NT equipment on as possible so that I could just convert between turbo and NT setups as easily as possible. So that's hurdle I'm jumping.

[coligan]

I am not sure but I think you can get exemption(sp) form emissions by classifing your car as a hoopy car or something similiar. I rember reading that some else here was able to do it when they turbo'd thier car, but i am not sure who. Anyway it may be something you want to look into. But I really don't know much about emissions because i live in rural PA and the county i live in doesn't even have emissions testing. :D

Jason

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by coligan
I am not sure but I think you can get exemption(sp) form emissions by classifing your car as a hoopy car or something similiar. I rember reading that some else here was able to do it when they turbo'd thier car, but i am not sure who. Anyway it may be something you want to look into. But I really don't know much about emissions because i live in rural PA and the county i live in doesn't even have emissions testing. :D

Jason
That's not fair. :mad: I live 1/4 mile inside Berks, but I still have to get tested.

[mercury187]

hey im new here :santa: and i would love to turbo my 2.0 '92 NA, i didnt read all the pages (just the first one), but i'd like to say im interested in this project also.:D

[destrux]

I figured out pricing on a bottom of the line-manually controlled fuel-7psi~185hp kit would cost about $500, most of the stuff bought used or from ebay of course.....

-a/t car turbo
-390cc injectors
-homemade downpipe (i have a torch and a mig)
-homemade intercooler pipe
-intercooler from a daytona/probe/starion/dsm/spirit rt
-1g turbo manifold
-o2 sensor housing (the n/t o2 sensor will work just fine)
-one range colder plugs
-westach EGT (required unless you like melted pistons)
-stock a/t turbo FPR
-rising rate fuel pressure reg
-B&M fuel pressure gauge
-boost gauge (try the one from a stock turbo daytona, it actually is a real gauge, unlike the factory dsm gauge... not to mention i picked up the daytona gauge for $5)
-some small elves to tell you when you have knock (just kidding)


yeah, its crude.... but half the turbo hondas out there do it the same way and they seem to have some luck

optional stuff...
-better clutch (you'll burn your stock one up in a few months most likely)
-MBC (when you start out you'll need to connect the wastegate actuator directly to the compressor outlet to get you about 7psi, when you want more boost you'll need to put in a MBC)
-turbo car ecu and injector resistor pack instead of RRFPR to control fuel (costs about $40 more, and you may need to get the turbo MAS for it to work, but I don't think so)

I'm either gonna try this setup on my car, try a supercharger, or get a 75 shot of N2O, I need something...
the turbo will probably end up at about 200hp in my car, I have no balance shafts, 2.5 inch exhaust (no cat), and a K&N. The exhaust is what I'm thinking will give me the extra 15hp. I'm also looking at a smaller turbo... like something from an older 1.8L turbo subaru engine, that might be TOO small though, I have to see. I want instant boost though... from 2k to redline.

or maybe I'll just wait till I win the lottery or finish college and buy an AWD turbo before i break the only car I have....

[Shadovvz]

tell us how everything works out.... i would be interested in turbo-charging my car:cool:

[cdstalon]

Instant boost is great and all, but if you pick a turbo that spools up that fast it's not gonna hold that boost to redline, no way, no how. Just look at the T25. You would need the turbo MAS btw.

[mkjc211]

Buy a 91-94 ECU, 1g turbo mas, at least a 14b turbo, Fuel Pressure Solenoid, Fuel pressure regulator off a turbo model, 440cc turbo injectors, injector resistor pack, and a walbro, slight wiring and 15+ lbs of boost is easily achievale. N/A practically the same as the turbo, the heads don't flow as well though.

[cdstalon]

The heads are exactly the same.... the only thing different is that the turbo has a slightly more aggressive exhaust cam to aid spool up.

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by mkjc211
Buy a 91-94 ECU, 1g turbo mas, at least a 14b turbo, Fuel Pressure Solenoid, Fuel pressure regulator off a turbo model, 440cc turbo injectors, injector resistor pack, and a walbro, slight wiring and 15+ lbs of boost is easily achievale. N/A practically the same as the turbo, the heads don't flow as well though.


Don't forget the pistons guys. It is not healthy to run high psi on the NT pistons and the knock sensor is definetely important in the conversion.

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by mkjc211
Buy a 91-94 ECU, 1g turbo mas, at least a 14b turbo, Fuel Pressure Solenoid, Fuel pressure regulator off a turbo model, 440cc turbo injectors, injector resistor pack, and a walbro, slight wiring and 15+ lbs of boost is easily achievale. N/A practically the same as the turbo, the heads don't flow as well though.
That's completely not true. The heads with the exception of the cams, is exactly the same.
Running 15 lbs on stock 9.0:1 pistons is about as stupid as can be. The rings are not designed for boost period, and the high compressions is a guaranteed way to melt a piston if not tuned properly. Many who have done this conversion found that out the hard way. With incredible tuning (the kind that scares the average dsmer away, you know, the guy that barely squeezes mid 12's from a 20g), race gas, and extremely picky monitoring of the engine's vitals, it MIGHT be OK at the track. On the street, it'll never happen. If it were that easy, everyone and their grandma would have done it by now.
Saying things like that might make easily influenced, inexperienced people do something stupid to their engine. Then you got a newbie, who thought he knew what he was doing, blowing his engine up for no good reason.

[Bumper2Bumper]

Okay, sorry for yet another noob question, but... if we run only 8 pounds of boost at our 9:1 CR and we're at our limit, how can the Honduh boys run 7lbs at their (at least) 10:1 CR. I know many of them install chips/computers and have "mad vtec", but does it make that much of a difference? What, besides meticulous tuning, can be done to maintain safety at 9:1?

[cdstalon]

I've always wondered the same thing my friend.

[Iceman21]

Originally posted by Bumper2Bumper
Okay, sorry for yet another noob question, but... if we run only 8 pounds of boost at our 9:1 CR and we're at our limit, how can the Honduh boys run 7lbs at their (at least) 10:1 CR. I know many of them install chips/computers and have "mad vtec", but does it make that much of a difference? What, besides meticulous tuning, can be done to maintain safety at 9:1?

Forged internals and some good rings. There are some out there running 9:1 forged pistons

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by Bumper2Bumper
Okay, sorry for yet another noob question, but... if we run only 8 pounds of boost at our 9:1 CR and we're at our limit, how can the Honduh boys run 7lbs at their (at least) 10:1 CR. I know many of them install chips/computers and have "mad vtec", but does it make that much of a difference? What, besides meticulous tuning, can be done to maintain safety at 9:1?


The key is a great tuning session and a very nice fuel system (fuel pump, S-AFC, AFPR and bigger inyectors)..

[mkjc211]

Originally posted by colonelfox

That's completely not true. The heads with the exception of the cams, is exactly the same.
Running 15 lbs on stock 9.0:1 pistons is about as stupid as can be. The rings are not designed for boost period, and the high compressions is a guaranteed way to melt a piston if not tuned properly. Many who have done this conversion found that out the hard way. With incredible tuning (the kind that scares the average dsmer away, you know, the guy that barely squeezes mid 12's from a 20g), race gas, and extremely picky monitoring of the engine's vitals, it MIGHT be OK at the track. On the street, it'll never happen. If it were that easy, everyone and their grandma would have done it by now.
Saying things like that might make easily influenced, inexperienced people do something stupid to their engine. Then you got a newbie, who thought he knew what he was doing, blowing his engine up for no good reason.

I have 93 plymouth laser rs awd turbo, with a turbo engine, running N/A pistons, I am still able to run 15+lbs of boost. The car actually performs my better vs. 7.8:1 piston, only downside per datalogger readings is the knock, knock has increased from 3-5 count to 7-9 counts. I believe the piston rings are the exact same. A simple water injection setup will bring the knock count to acceptable levels. 2g 4g63's run 8.5:1 compression pistons and run the same amount boost as us 1g guys. So what's another .5 increase in compression. Any 2G turbo owner who has the head resurfaced is probably DAMN close to 9:1, and they can run 20+lbs. I don't understand why you guys think 7-8 lbs is the limit. Like BlackBoost said Fuel really is the KEY.

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by mkjc211


I have 93 plymouth laser rs awd turbo, with a turbo engine, running N/A pistons, I am still able to run 15+lbs of boost. The car actually performs my better vs. 7.8:1 piston, only downside per datalogger readings is the knock, knock has increased from 3-5 count to 7-9 counts. I believe the piston rings are the exact same. A simple water injection setup will bring the knock count to acceptable levels. 2g 4g63's run 8.5:1 compression pistons and run the same amount boost as us 1g guys. So what's another .5 increase in compression. Any 2G turbo owner who has the head resurfaced is probably DAMN close to 9:1, and they can run 20+lbs. I don't understand why you guys think 7-8 lbs is the limit. Like BlackBoost said Fuel really is the KEY.
The rings are definately different. That's the biggest weak point. I know it's possible to run high boost, but just not safe or worth the potential catastrophic engine damage that can occur. The rings seriously though, even feel different. When I did the conversion, my NT rings felt so thin and puny. The turbo ones were meaty, and heftier feeling. Noone has really tried it, but I guess, if you're willing, do it, and prove the doubters wrong, give it a shot with higher boost. There's always room for a challenge. Hell, a few years ago, this whole conversion was "impossible". Look how many of us have done it successfully.

[Blackboost]

The ring lands on the NT pistons are not as strong as the ones on the turbo pistons. BTW the rings are different too.


Also 2G's run higher boost levels from the factory, this is do to the fact that their heads don't flow as nice as the ones on the 1G cars and because the T-25 is a smaller turbo than the 14B...

[1994eclipse]

I want to turbo my car. Can someone help me with a list of every little thing i'd need. thanks. so far i have:

14b turbo
turbo ic and piping and bov
mbc
boost gauge
egt gauge
a/f gauge
turbo ecu
turbo mas
turbo injectors
turbo fuel pump
turbo fuel pressure regulator
clutch

im not sure if these are needed, are they?:
rising rate fuel pressure regulator
knock sensor
injector resistor pack
fuel pressure solenoid

[mavisky]

personally i think its possible to run big boost on the nt pistons, but i'd rather not be the first to try and end up with ring chunks floating in my oil pan. thus the reason i actually installed a full turbo block. if ya want 9:1 get some new pistons from JE or something.

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by 1994eclipse
I want to turbo my car. Can someone help me with a list of every little thing i'd need. thanks.

Take a look at the "Sticky " thread at the top of this Forum that talks about turbo conversions...;)

[Crash648]

I definately would want one! Someone at least is trying...so thank you! Let me know when you finish it!!

[mkjc211]

Originally posted by colonelfox

The rings are definately different. That's the biggest weak point. I know it's possible to run high boost, but just not safe or worth the potential catastrophic engine damage that can occur. The rings seriously though, even feel different. When I did the conversion, my NT rings felt so thin and puny. The turbo ones were meaty, and heftier feeling. Noone has really tried it, but I guess, if you're willing, do it, and prove the doubters wrong, give it a shot with higher boost. There's always room for a challenge. Hell, a few years ago, this whole conversion was "impossible". Look how many of us have done it successfully.

I currently am running the N/A pistons in my turbo engine, and REALLY am boosting 15LBS. I have non problems as of yet. You maybe right about the rings, I didn't compare difference in the rings, the piston how I did. The N/t Piston is almost flat across the top, turbo piston has a slight dish top. On the turbo piston, the top grove for the compression ring was located slight lower on the piston than the N/A. I'm saying is I HAVE DONE IT, I AM CURENTLY RUNNING 15LBS.

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by mkjc211


I currently am running the N/A pistons in my turbo engine, and REALLY am boosting 15LBS. I have non problems as of yet. You maybe right about the rings, I didn't compare difference in the rings, the piston how I did. The N/t Piston is almost flat across the top, turbo piston has a slight dish top. On the turbo piston, the top grove for the compression ring was located slight lower on the piston than the N/A. I'm saying is I HAVE DONE IT, I AM CURENTLY RUNNING 15LBS.
I guess you kind of shut me up :D How long have you run it that way?

[mkjc211]

It's only been running for 2 months so far, no track run yet. Colonelfox, i get what you are saying, it's probably not the safest thing to do. I've had good luck so far, but who knows, you might see me back here in a few month saying how stupid it was to do it. The only reason I did this was I was able to get the pistons dirt cheap, as in $25 a piece, brand new. However yes I difinately recomend if you are getting new pistons, to install some forged units. You know how cheap some of us DSMer can get.

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by mkjc211
It's only been running for 2 months so far, no track run yet. Colonelfox, i get what you are saying, it's probably not the safest thing to do. I've had good luck so far, but who knows, you might see me back here in a few month saying how stupid it was to do it. The only reason I did this was I was able to get the pistons dirt cheap, as in $25 a piece, brand new. However yes I difinately recomend if you are getting new pistons, to install some forged units. You know how cheap some of us DSMer can get.
Yeah. Believe me, I know about the cheap thing. I blew up 2 motors because I didn't take it to a professional for various things I figured I could do myself. I got a 16g for $20, and rebuilt it myself (hope it works for teh shootout) a homemade FMIC made out of a hacked volvo ic. Cheap doesn't even begin to describe some of us :D . Do you at least have an egt guage, and something to monitor the o2 voltage?

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by colonelfox

I got a 16g for $20, and rebuilt it myself (hope it works for teh shootout)

I wish I can find something like that for $20!!

BTW, I will knock on wood for you guys, so that your setups make it thru and stay reliable. Also don't get the dinky A/F gauge, it's worthless. Stay with a EGT and keep the fuel mods up to par too.

[destrux]

the blinky a/f gauge is junk... i agree... but if you use an egt it's also a good idea to monitor the O2 sensor output so you know if that high egt is being caused by an overly-rich mix, or a lean mix.

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by Blackboost


I wish I can find something like that for $20!!

BTW, I will knock on wood for you guys, so that your setups make it thru and stay reliable. Also don't get the dinky A/F gauge, it's worthless. Stay with a EGT and keep the fuel mods up to par too.
I got it from a moderator here (I'll keep the name to myself so I don't piss someone off). He's my new hero. The oil seal on the exhaust side of the shaft was worn, and the thrust bearing was a little worn as well. I just used the bearings and all from a rebuilt 14B I was going to use, and swapped them in. It has no shaft play, and seems to be in great condition. It was even ported and clipped :D It's being balanced now, and hopefully it works well enough for the shootout. That in and of itself almost made up for the rest of the BS that's happened to my dsm in the last year.

[cdstalon]

Come on Josh, you know you want to give it to me =). My car is running pretty well right now (even with the NT pistons). I just got my SAFC in the mail the other day, so hopefully with some tuning it will run even better. Last night I raced from a roll my friend with a 2g (Injen intake, test pipe, Dave Brode UICP, Greddy Type S, Joe P MBC@15psi) and through all of second gear he put maybe a car length on me. He ran a 14.4@100. So I'm pretty happy with the performance now.... I figure it's somewhere in teh 14.8-15.2 category. Although I'm sure a clutch would help (mine's still the stocker with 133k on it)