Why do you drive a N/T?

[DSMscreamer]

I was just wondering why you guys got the non-turbo version of the DSMs. I'm not knocking you guys or anything, I was just curious. It seems some of you are going to end up spending more money to convert your cars to turbo than to just buy a used example. Is it the insurance rates?

[Jason ESi-T]

Good question.

I'm sure the answer boils down to a very simple "it was cheaper at the time(lower inital cost and lower insurance rates), looked really nice, and at the time, I wasn't realy into performance." (many will answer in that fashion)

At the time, I really wasn't into car performance at all. After that, I, of course, got into it and after it's all been said and done, I'm happy with my decision and how it all turned out. I know I'll never launch as well as an AWD, but that's alright, I'm not really a drag racer. However, I do love the great looks of my car and it does handle very nicely and with the turbo, can really move.

I could go on about why I think this particular model DSM (420a) is the best overall balance in the looks, performance, and reliability, but it would all be opinion.

I think once you learn more about our particular car and its not-so-obvious and subtle advantages, the more you might ask a similar question to someone who would buy a car with questionable looks, tranny and handling such as a 1g and very questionable reliability with a 2g (4g63)....it's all from your own point of view. =-)

[Edited by Jason ESi-T on 04-24-2001 at 11:20 AM]

[dsm93talon]

i'm converting mine for the challenge. plain and simple :D

when i'm done with this project i'm going to either build a streetable geo metro awd turbo 4G63 (don't laugh, it should run 9's, anyone wanna see a 4wd burnout? hehe) or i will buy a tsi awd and build that up as a street car.

I do this impossible shit because I believe it can be done, regardless of the performance gains. tell me something, would you NOT stop by my car @ the car show at the shootout to see a turbo'd NT with stock internals? I think you would :) would you not be like "sweet!" when you see my NT boosting down the 1/4 running high 13's? (hopefully, not sure yet) of course you would. That's why. Because most people discount the idea before it's even been proven wrong. In my case, this will be a reliable and cost effective conversion which will turn numbers much like a GST would, it may be the half assed way to do it. But I learned enough out of this to prepare myself to be able to build a good tsi awd or my metro project (future, maybe) without thinking twice, which is why i am doing it and why I love NT's

anyways, the NT is stilla great car, and can be as reliable as a *cough* honda or toyota if you treat it right :)

[Doug96GS]

I bought my car b/c it was everything that I wanted minus the turbo. THat really didn't metter though, at the time I was just happy to have a nice car. My previous ride (1st car) was a 1986 Pontiac Firebird 6cyl. auto, so you can see why I would be overjoyed to own my car. :)

[DSMscreamer]

I feel for you on the Pontiac Firechicken. I once drove a painted blue 1973 postal Jeep. It looked like crap but it was quick believe it or not. lots of torque right off idle..it could damn near pull a small wheelie. To get out of that car I purchased a new 1989 Civic DX and put a jackson racing muffler on it. Slow but it sounded and felt fast plus it looked good. I had a lot of fun driving it. I guess thats whats really important.... the enjoyment factor.

[I Killed Tupac]

Because 2nd Generation turbo DSMs are the worst cars ever made, and Mitsubishi is a corporation without a conscience.

[I Killed Tupac]

Originally posted by Jason ESi-T
I think once you learn more about our particular car and its not-so-obvious and subtle advantages, the more you might ask a similar question to someone who would buy a car with questionable looks, tranny and handling such as a 1g and very questionable reliability with a 2g (4g63)....it's all from your own point of view. =-)

[Edited by Jason ESi-T on 04-24-2001 at 11:20 AM]

Very, very well said.

[DSMscreamer]

Pac, what went wrong with your 2G that makes you hate it so? Everyone I know with a 2G is very happy with it. But they are all 97s and up 2Gs. Is there a difference? Oh and I would change your signature if you ever hope to sell your car.

[Ghoste]

Originally Posted by dsm93talon
I do this impossible shit because I believe it can be done

How about a 1.8L Automatic Turbo Kit :)

-Ghoste

[I Killed Tupac]

Originally posted by DSMscreamer
Pac, what went wrong with your 2G that makes you hate it so? Everyone I know with a 2G is very happy with it. But they are all 97s and up 2Gs. Is there a difference? Oh and I would change your signature if you ever hope to sell your car.

I've never known anyone that used to own a 2nd gen DSM turbo that looked back fondly on it. Here's the most current running repairs, sure there will be more tomorrow.
Oh, and I've owned it nine months and its been in the shop a total of 6 weeks.
Here:

Control arm broke, snapped ball joint, and slammed wheel into fender well causing body damage, $1200
2 O2 sensors
Idle speed controller
2 timing belts
water pump
all 4 struts
valve cover
valve cover gasket
thrust bearing
crankshaft
hood sensor
door lock
sun roof
2 front main seals
slave cylinder
1st&3rd gear synchros
fuel injector
its in the shop again for the ball joint, maybe a starter

I'm getting an Acura.

[DSMscreamer]

I see your point. Nothing can change your opinion of a car than breaking stuff and frustration. If you get a GS-R, I'll bet after about a month you will be longing for the low end grunt of your GS-T. I was stuck with my friends GS-R for a month while my car was having some performance work done. At first it was fun, the car was much lighter and slightly more nimble than mine and the sound it made revving to 8500RPM was the sh-t. After a week or so of around town driving I got tired of getting trounsed by soccer moms with a caravan full of kids cause I short shifted from 1st to 2nd and got caught with the revs down below 4000RPM. I longed for the torque of my DSM. Just hope you know what your doing.

[mavisky]

my dad had goteen a 98 talon tsi that spring. and i was sick and tired of my dented ass s10. we got a new used dealer in town and one of the first cars on the lot was a used 92 talon nt. went checked it out and loved it. it had some problems though so i told him if he could get one in better condition that he'd have himself a sale.

a month later my car showed up on the lot. drove it, loved it, and a month later my mom got it for me for a birthday present. she spoiled the hell out of me and continues to pay the insurance on it. i pay for all the modifications and stuff though.

the insurance is nice and cheap on it too. plus after i hook up my nitrous and spend a little more money on the suspension i should be able to easily outperform any stock turbo fwd.

[hardlydangerous]

My previous car was a chevy Beretta V6 POS.
I have always loved the talons and saw our 91 laser RS for sale at the same lot that we were test driving new cars at.
the new cars were a cavalier z22 and a Honda Civic si
The laser was MINT and also faster more powerful nicer inside then both of the new cars and my old POS.
I had full documentation of the previous maintenance and was impressed to see they changed the synthetic oil every 6000km .
It was a 1 owner 23 year old girl,who traded it in on a slower more lady like car (oldsmobile).
The price tag was $5900 and I suckerd him down to $3900 kinda as a joke at first.The wife loved it as well except for the stock stereo.
I got $500 for the beretta and drove the Laser home the next day.
Even with all the miles on that little car (235,000)it still will our run most 4 and 6 cylinder cars.

To sum it all up I got a great lookin, more powerful than my prevois car,cheap ,low miles,and it has been very reliable.

[Street_Reaper]

I got a NT because at the time i didnt know anything about DSMs. I didnt even kow there was a turbo DSM. I wasnt even lookin for one. I was actually lookin for a civic or camaro. Something that i have seen go fast (or look fast). Then i came across my Laser. Its as basic as they come. The way i look at it that everything that i fix on this car ill know how to do it on my Turbo car that i will get next. If i had know what i know now then i would have gotten a Turbo. But i didnt. I still like my car. Plus its paid off!!! :-)


Jesse

[colonelfox]

I drove a 1985 Chevy Celebrity Eurosport station wagon in a heavily oxidized purple color. Not exactly good for impressing girls. I was going to buy a 1993 Dodge Stealth R/T, but couldn't get financed for a $10000 car. I saw a 90 Eagle Talon in the corner of the lot looking all sad, and decided to get it instead. I figured (wrongly, but I'm doing it anyway) it'd be easy enough to swap engines and all with a turbo, and keep the low insurance rates. Plus chicks dig my car now so I'm happy :)

[Edited by colonelfox on 04-25-2001 at 05:58 PM]

[colonelfox]

Originally posted by hardlydangerous

The price tag was $5900 and I suckerd him down to $3900 kinda as a joke at first.The wife loved it as well except for the stock stereo.
I got $500 for the beretta and drove the Laser home the next day.
Even with all the miles on that little car (235,000)it still will our run most 4 and 6 cylinder cars.

To sum it all up I got a great lookin, more powerful than my prevois car,cheap ,low miles,and it has been very reliable.
You kinda got ripped off. I paid $3900 for my 1990 Eagle Talon ESI, and I got slightly ripped off. It had just under 90000 MI. Pretty close to mint condition too (except for the fact that the front of the car is a few shades darker than the rest of it.) Ohh well. As long as you're happy :)

[DarkOne]

Well, when i bought my Eclipse, i was all of 18 and just out of highschool. I loved the look more than anything, and got a great deal on it from a cut-off preppy kid who couldn't afford it (and the insurance was low). At the time, i didn't care if it was a non turbo, but from day one i was dreaming of aftermarket turbo kits. (i had a friend that turbocharged his 94 Civic DX hatchback that was always showing me the ads) I didn't really get into performance until the day i found 2gnt.com and learned of all the potential it had. Once i got convinced of this, i started to get a lot more involved with my car... and here i am now. I have it, i love it, i wouldn't part with it for the world. It's been there for me when nothing else was, and i've been able to depend on it when my life would throw me a curve. She's taken care of me. My GF calls the GS my wife. it sounds sad, i'm sure, but hey, when your in love.... :-)

[HRC Engineering]

I bought a 2GNT because my customers expressed a great interest in seeing a turbosystem designed for it. Three years later, I still own the car, and my wife currently drives it daily (I took away her turbo PT Cruiser for more development work, but I WILL get the RS back shortly!). She can tell you that in daily use, the RS gets the job done nicely.

Of course, I had my reasons. But why would someone else choose an RS for this scenario? I can provide a few other reasons:

Lightest 2G DSM available.
Engine responds well to mods, no inherent problems.
Transmission holds up to the power, and can be modded with many choices of gear ratios and internal parts.
Less expensive up front.
Less expensive to insure.

Now, this is not an argument against GS-T or GS-X. I love them too! But life is too short to be limited to one kind of fun. Call this instead a fresh perspective, one too often overlooked, or perhaps just not understood, during NT-bashing.

Do not think a replica of this car is expensive, as here is what it takes to go mid 11's as a daily driver:

20G turbo
Fuel injectors
Fuel system electronics
Fuel pump upgrade
Front mount intercooler
Intercooler pipes
Downpipe upgrade
Cat-back exhaust
Pistons / rods
Clutch upgrade
Boost controller
Wheels / tires

Sound like a familiar list? Sure it does...not any different than what one might do to a GS-X or GS-T for similar performance. So why do it to the RS-GS instead? In addition to the reasons outlined above, add another: now that this NT engine has piston and rod upgrades, it will hold up to at least 600 HP dependably. How can I say that? Done it, and not just once. See this month's issues of Hot Rod, Super Street, and Mopar Muscle for a streetable TEN second, 140 MPH version of this drivetrain. Sure, it's in a Neon (snicker if you will, just don't pull up next to it), but it still proves a point for the much maligned NT engine.

Hondas aren't the only cars that go fast with turbos installed on non-turbo models! But unlike Hondas, NT DSM's can do it without having to sink megabucks into the engine.

I know all DSM's can get along. There just needs to be some mutual respect and less condescending attitudes, without hypocrisy. I am reminded of a line from a famous novel:

"All (DSM's) are created equal. But some (DSM's) are more equal than others". - A parts credit to the first person who can identify this quote correctly (please forgive my interpretation of it!).

[Ghoste]

(same thought and with a different plot)

-Ghoste

[Doug96GS]

Animal Farm -- 8th grade English :)

[MizBichy]

When I want power I'll drive my GTO with over 400hp, but for just daily driving I'd rather drive my GS with its 150hp. And when it comes down to it the GTO can take any of the eclipses out there except a couple that run in the 9's.
For the price of a turbo system I can build a 600 hp engine for a older domestic, so why not have two cars? That and cops love to pull me over for no reason when I drive the eclipse.

[destrux]

I got my nt cause my parents wouldnt let me get a turbo (they have this image that i would suddenly speed and get in accidents if i got a faster car). I love it, it handles great, and isn't all that slow. As the 1g nt site says "it's more fun to drive a slower car at ten tenths than it is to drive a fast car at 5 tenths" (or something like that). The other reason is that the lowest mileage I could find on a turbo car was around 90,000mi. My 93 nt has 55,000mi on the motor and 71,000 on the chassis, and I paid $3,800! Couldn't pass up a deal like that. The insurance is great too.

The last reason is that my last car was a 90 hp subaru station wagon.

[PlyLaserRS]

Actually I couldn't tell ya why I bought a N/T car..Maybe I juts wasnt thinking..But I'm looking for a Talon or Laser turbocharged in the area for a good price..

[gondzur]

I drive a non turbo because my uncle sold it to me. He owned it (92 Talon 2.0) for awhile along with a Tsi and he took very good care of both. Other reasons I bought it, insurance is cheap and it had 90K on it and I only paid 2500 bucks for it and he even let me pay him 100 bucks a month for it and I wasnt about to pass that up because at the time i was driving a 1986 Chevy Custom Deluxe C/10 fullsize pickup. That truck was like a rock, but not may chicks like them things. LoL.

Ryan

[Jason ESi-T]

TO HRC:

It was used by George Orwell:

"All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others." George Orwell

It was also coined in the satirical moral of Animal Farm used by the exploitative pigs, "all are created equal, but some are more equal than others."

oops! Sorry didn't see your post above, Doug. Nevermind... :-)






[Edited by Jason ESi-T on 04-27-2001 at 03:53 PM]

[Doug96GS]

Haha, I never though that junior high English would come in handy :)

[jza]

me, i just fell in love w/ the thing...primarily the color (copper). i'll prolly be turboing it soon, only regret is the tranny, which is auto, but i refuse to do a conversion, sorry :) at the time, i wasn't into performance (heck it was my first car )

[Doug96GS]

a 2g is a damn nice first car, this is my second car.

[SPEEDRACER-21]

i own a 2gnt because my previous car was a neon, and it was about to fall apart. Plus since 95 when the 2g came out i've always wanted one, so right before they changed it i went to the dealer (just to test drive) but when they tell you your approved, you just can't leave without it. But i eneded up with the nt just because the dealer wanted 3 grand down on the gst, and all i had was 2500.

[psyjoniz]

bottom line? CASH - thats why i drive my NT - didn't have the funds available at the time. i'm still torn between wanting to turbo mine or just not waste my time and stick to audio. would love a gsx tho!!

[eagleflyinlow]

I bought mine cuz i wanted the looks of a 2g w/o the damn crankwalk. Mine'll be turbo soon tho and then you can salm on me all you want while your cankwalked beast sits in the garage and you tool around in a metro. not to start any flames or anything, but I'm just tired of being slammed on for driving my nt, when I think I actually made a better choice than the 2g T guys. peace in the middle

[hudy]

I recieved mine as a gift when i graduated from high school. My parents, who bought the car for me and pay the insurance, didn't want me to have a turbo charged car as they knew how I would drive it. Ironically, they are the ones paying for my turbo, they just don't know it (creative saving).

[WantASpyder]

I found out the horrors of crankwalk

[MindBlowin03]

Looks just as nice, if not nicer, than turbo's. Runs for more than a week at a time without breaking down. Cost much less to buy and keep up.

[DSMscreamer]

"Looks just as nice, if not nicer, than turbo's. Runs for more than a week at a time without breaking down. Cost much less to buy and keep up."


I dont agree, My 91 GSX has over 175,000 miles on it and has never let me down. Its the original motor too and Ive run it at the track more times then I can remeber. Ive only had to do routine maintenace and its been modded and running 13s and more recently mid 12s with no trouble. I think the reliablility comes into question with the 2G turbos.

[MindBlowin03]

Well, not all, of course. Just N/T's are much more reliable. Dont getme wrong here. I would love to have a turbo, but when I was shopping for a car i found mine. So I bought it. Had nothing to do with speed. Just the potential in looks. I guess its whatever your looking for in a car.

[TurboTalon1]

Originally posted by DSMscreamer
I was just wondering why you guys got the non-turbo version of the DSMs. I'm not knocking you guys or anything, I was just curious. It seems some of you are going to end up spending more money to convert your cars to turbo than to just buy a used example. Is it the insurance rates? I went to buy a new car and saw a 98'Eagle Talon N/T and it was love at first site. I got involved in the DSM Cars and the DSM vs Honduh thing. After much research I decided to convert my 420A N/T Talon to a HahnRacecraft Super16G Turbo for the following reasons. Its cheaper and my Turbo'd 420A has more HP than a factory turbo car. Also there are alot more bolt on parts and engine parts available for the 4G63 so its a challenge to build a 420A Turbo Motor. However the 420A does have some advantages. The 4G63 is an old motor. The 420A is a newer and much more advanced motor technically speaking. Parts are harder to come buy but JE and Crower will make forged low compression pistons and rods for the motor. I plan to prove the points made above buy building a very powerful 420A motor to back up my mouth, lol. The 420A is capable of making the same HP or more as the 4G63 and hopefully soon some of us N/T to Turbo guys will begin to show this point and get a little respect. Peace out and lets whip some Honduh but.

[REDNEK91LASER]

I dont know about the rest of us NT dsm-ers, but I have one because I got it from my parents when they bought a trubo AWD and I will continue to enjoy the challenge of taling a naturally aspirated 2.0 and making it fast. plus the insurance companies probably wont insure me to drive a car w/300+ hp at 15 on a learners permit.


REDNEK91LASER

[phrenzy]

Pretty simple for me. I knew I could take it turbo, and I'm quite fond of the 420A power plant

[Saberz]

MizBichy-"When I want power I'll drive my GTO with over 400hp, but for just daily driving I'd rather drive my GS with its 150hp. And when it comes down to it the GTO can take any of the eclipses out there except a couple that run in the 9's."

Hmm...something's not adding up here. I'm assuming when you say GTO you mean the Japanese version of the 3000GT. Well, lets do some math. Say you have 420hp. Thats a 100hp improvement over stock, very nice. Now for the "when it comes down to it the GTO can take any of the eclipses out there except a couple that run in the 9's." part. Either your full of shit and dont own a GTO, or you've lightened it down to around 1800lbs. Seeing how the GTO/3000GT VR-4 weighs in at close to 4000lbs (or more, I'm not sure) I dont see the weight reduction thing happening. 420hp in a GTO/3000GT would net you 1/4 mile times in the high high 12 to low 13 second range. Now, check the DSM dragtimes and you'll find literally hundreds of Eclipses runnning faster than 12.9 and hundreds more around the country who havent added their timeslip. Hell, HRC's 2800lb Eclipse that sports 500hp is running mid 11's. Do the math. Not trying to be an ass, I just smelled some BS.

[WantASpyder]

Saberz, what the hell are you talking about? He is in the U.S. so he would not have a Mitsubishi GTO, he has a Pontiac GTO, a classic american muscle car. Do you live in the U.S.?

[I Killed Tupac]

Originally posted by eagleflyinlow
I bought mine cuz i wanted the looks of a 2g w/o the damn crankwalk. Mine'll be turbo soon tho and then you can salm on me all you want while your cankwalked beast sits in the garage and you tool around in a metro. not to start any flames or anything, but I'm just tired of being slammed on for driving my nt, when I think I actually made a better choice than the 2g T guys. peace in the middle

Ha! Thats EXACTLY what happened to me! My 95 GST crankwalked and i had to rent a 3 cylinder Metro :(

[Saberz]

Ah well then. This is a DSM board, so I figured he meant 3000GT. He never specified, and I never knew. Anyhow, same rules apply. 400hp GTO will run approximately high 12's. Thousands of GS-T's and GSX's and turbo RS/GS's out there will spank that. Not just a "few in the 9's".

[1997EclipseGST]

Originally posted by I Killed Tupac
Ha! Thats EXACTLY what happened to me! My 95 GST crankwalked and i had to rent a 3 cylinder Metro :( [/B]

Man you really are bitter about that whole crankwalk thing. like in just about every post ive seen from you on this topic or others...anyways i understand though, id be mad if my car crankwalked. although my car now has 91,000 miles on it (i commute) and the *only* problem i have ever had with it was a few days ago when the clutch slave cylinder was leaksing. I replaced it myself in about an hour. total cost for parts: $33.92 . now maybe im just really really lucky or something, but to me the dsm is a very reliable car. The only other downtime has been for the other mods i have put on it.

-Aaron

[Jay 99 GS]

I fall under the "I didn't have the money at the time category." My beat up ’88 300ZX died right before my senior year in college and I wanted a new car. The N/T Eclipse was the best I could afford and now that I’ve graduated and getting on my feet financially I want to improve its performance.

[dsm93talon]

GTO... damn! the goat, the judge etc... :)