Your automatic DSM upgrade List

[InvaderGST]

People always ask the same questions over and over, so here is a list of what you can get done.

1) Translab Shift Kit-valve body mod. Improves shifts. $50-$75

2)Alto End Clutch Kit-for the embarassing OD clutch that goes out easily in stock form. $75

3)High Stall Torque Converter-a lot of people run the stock one, but I believe it is a huge improvement and can handle the abuse better. $500

4)Add on Tranny cooler. The stock one is decent size, but buying another one to run in series with it helps as the cooler your tranny stays the better. Not often talked about, but they are only around $75-$100. You can run it on top of the stock tranny cooler or on your radiator. When using this add a little extra tranny fluid.

5)Now those are steps for upgrading a working tranny. If you are doing a rebuild from a broken one get the PTS kit from Level 10. It's expensive $450, but this kit has many upgraded clutches and gears that you cannot buy from most places. If you get this kit you do not need the alto end clutch kit as it is provided. It also comes with gaskets and other stuff you need.

6) If you are going all out with mods and you want fast times get a DSMlink. For the automatics it retains the ignition timing through shifts.

7) Another tip is when you do a torque converter swap use lock tite on the bolts. No matter how hard you bolt them down they will eventually losen up and you'll here your car rattle. That means the flex plate is coming lose from the torque converter.

8) Now I am just waiting for some company to create an aftermarket flexplate because we need a better quality one.

[EclipseGSX101]

Originally posted by InvaderGST
6) If you are going all out with mods and you want fast times get a DSMlink. For the automatics it retains the ignition timing through shifts.
Note - AEM EMS also retains timing through the shifts for those of you with 2nd gens that may have a difficult time finding EPROM ECUs. :D

[InvaderGST]

Sure the AEM EMS is nice, but I recommend the DSMlink since it is specifically designed and created for DSM's plus $550 compared to around $1500 for the AEM. Big difference. 2G EPPROM ECU's can be gripped up for $200-$300. I have yet to see or test out the AEM EMS, but I will have to wait until next season as that is a lot of cash.

[EclipseGSX101]

Apples to oranges, my friend.

Both the AEM unit and the DSMlink have their advantages, but I still believe that the AEM EMS is the better choice.

The AEM EMS was specifically designed for the 2G DSM. It isn't some kind of cheap universal box that you can slap on your mom's geo metro. Why do you think it's has taken so long for a 1G unit to come out? Each EMS is specificly designed for a very specific application.

Also finding 2G EPROM ECUs isn't exactly easy. I just checked ebay, thepartstrader, and a couple other resources. Found only 1. That guy believes his EPROM ECU is worth $1,299 and he said it may be a non-working ECU. So... :rollseyes:

Hands down the AEM unit has way more flexibility. You can tweak, adjust, and tune everything, not just a couple dozen values. Possibilities are endless. Other advantages:

-- As you know many 1Gs upgrade to a 2G MAS for better flow (less restriction). How about getting rid of that MAS all together? Hows that for less restriction? You can do just that with the EMS.

-- Some people love to vent the BOV to atmosphere. Remove your MAS and vent to your little hearts content without the overly rich condition side effect of the stock MAS system.

-- Wouldn't it be just peachy to have your ECU auto-tune your car while driving? Of course it would. That's why the EMS can do that.

-- Get rid of that S-AFC, boost controller, and ITC because the EMS will control it all. You can even get rid of your guages (boost, EGT, A/F, etc) if you like to live on the wild side. Oh and toss that other datalogger too. That saves somewhere in the neighborhood of $800 to $1,500 depending on how much you decide to get rid of (or not buy in the first place).

-- etc, etc.

But like I said, apples to oranges. Afterall, this thread was originally posted as a guide to help the new A/T DSMers upgrade their automagics. Good job looking out. This is just the info that newbies need. I don't want to turn this into a DSMlink vs. EMS thread. But I think "next season" you just might be pleasantly surprised. :)

[InvaderGST]

I'm not arguing the fact that the AEM EMS is a bad boy. I actually wanted to buy one, but after months of waiting and calling AEM monthly and still saying it isn't released yet I bought the DSMlink. Extrememotorsports.com sells EEPROM ECU's for $275 and you can find them on DSMtrader.com for around $200-$300. I know the advantages of the AEM over the DSMlink. The boost controller function and the graphics are a couple of the things DSMlink lacks compared to the AEM EMS. And the DSMlink is specifically made for the 2G Eclipses/Talon's also. Full support through a Yahoo Chat group. I am going to try the AEM next season, but my question for you is how difficult is it to setup? I think I read a review at Buscher saying that it was a pain at first, but they finally got it running right. I know what your saying though about replacing so many things. Selling the S-AFC and TMO chip I had from my previous setup basically paid for the entire DSMlink setup. I alos definitely will consider the AEM when the add on N20 sensor for the EMS gets released for it.

[ProDodgeBall]

InvaderGST, I'm new to upgrading an auto trans, so I appreciate that upgrade list. (I had been determined to do a conversion, but gave up) Anyway, will I see an improved E.T. from just the Translab shift kit and end clutch upgrade, or do they just fortify the trans? Sorry if this is answered somewhere else, I couldn't find an answer.

[InvaderGST]

The shift kit may help the time very slightly. Not much though. Maybe a quarter of a second. The end clutch will not help your time. A high stall torque converter will help the time. I'm pretty jealous that you have a 99 GSX automatic. I'm in Michigan too. If you ever want to sell it let me know!

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by InvaderGST
The shift kit may help the time very slightly. Not much though. Maybe a quarter of a second.

Yea, but I think a 1/4 sec. is a big help. You would need about 15-20 whp to make that up. 1/4 sec. is probably about right. I would say that it takes approx. .1 sec off each shift. No times to back this time up, just by the seat of my pants method.

[doug]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
1/4 sec. is probably about right. I would say that it takes approx. .1 sec off each shift. No times to back this time up, just by the seat of my pants method.

Hey, let's leave your pants out of this... :D

But seriously, thanks for that info-- this question has been asked several times in the past few weeks and this is the first time I've seen any sort of an answer to it.

I know you said you didn't have any times to back this up, but have you been to the track any? I'm asking since you have close to the same mods as me (except for the tranny work), and the same car, so I was just wondering what kinds of times I might expect. Yeah, I know-- not the most popular question around here.

[ProDodgeBall]

It's funny that you mention me selling it invader, because it's been posted for sale on dsmtrader for like 3 weeks, and an ebay auction for it just ended, below my reserve unfortunately. But I'll be honest, it may not be the best deal out there. Although it is a 99, it already has 72k miles, and I want around $13,000 for it, because I'm trying to buy a car with like NO blue book value, so I'm going to need a huge deposit. I still owe 12,000 on the eclipse, so thats not even much profit. Anyway, whether you're interested or not, we should meet sometime if you're close, I think I could learn a lot from you about tuning my car if I end up keeping it. I'm not exactly what you'd call an expert. Sorry to get off subject here people.

[InvaderGST]

Yeah I am a bargain shopper. My 95 GS-T has less miles than your 99, but I have been trying to hunt down a good deal on a 2G Auto GSX. $13K is more money than I am looking to drop for one. Anyways you can email me anytime at Invadergst@aol.com

[mike24]

I Was just wondering where u purchase these things from ie the shift kit the end clutch and a torque converter, and where would be the best place to have it installed.

Thanks

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by doug


I know you said you didn't have any times to back this up, but have you been to the track any? I'm asking since you have close to the same mods as me (except for the tranny work), and the same car, so I was just wondering what kinds of times I might expect. Yeah, I know-- not the most popular question around here.

I have not been to the track yet. But I plan to go as soon as I install my O2 eliminator downpipe from Rnrracing. I ordered it about a week ago. So I am thinking in about a couple weeks I will have times. I will keep you posted.

[InvaderGST]

We had this discussion about two months ago about the AEM EMS and the DSMlink. I was about to try out the DSMlink and read some info on it on the Yahoo Auto DSM group. Some of big dogs out there with the auto's have confirmed and tested that on the 2G's the AEM EMS ECU is not compatible with the TCU and a bunch of different stand alone units had to be used to replace the TCU to get it to work with the AEM EMS. So whoever before was arguing about how great the AEM EMS was on this forum, I want to know why you were talking it all up in this forum when you either do not have an AEM yet or do not have an automatic tranny in your 2G DSM? I almost sold my DSMlink to buy the AEM as I found somebody selling one for $1200 to play around to see how good it actually is. Thank god I didn't. I also did some research on it before I was going to buy it. Many people say it is really nice, but not as easy to tune as it claims to be. Even Buschur racing tested the unit and said it took them a while to get it tuned.

[bedlam32570]

transgo shift lab makes a shift kit for the 604 tranny in the RS/GS eclipses. it runs 30 bucks. pretty good too. you can also take the final drive gears from a stratus and replace your stock ones with these and boom, you get more umphf in your go.

[InvaderGST]

What do you need a shift kit for if you are running a Dodge Neon engine? Unless you buy the turbo kit you will never make enough power to need a shift kit or any type of tranny mod. most people want to mod the tranny so that it can handle above 300HP at the wheels. Your RS will not make it there......

[doug]

I'm sure everybody here wants a little extra performance no matter what they drive. And every little bits helps-- lay off the guy.

[dyablo]

So could i just to like autozone or Kragen and ask for a Alto End Clutch Kit, and a Translab Shift Kit or where could i get them form?

[LaNg Jii]

www.plymouthlaser.com

Charles usually has a couple of kits. I bought my shift kit and end clutch from him.

Just check out his site and drop him an email.

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by LaNg Jii
www.plymouthlaser.com

Charles usually has a couple of kits. I bought my shift kit and end clutch from him.

Just check out his site and drop him an email.

;) Agree...

[bedlam32570]

to InvaderGST - i was simply adding something for some of the RS/GS's on this board with auto. who knows how much boost they have. this post was for automatic DSM upgrade list. i was putting some info on here for those RS/GS's with turbo kits like myself. so before you criticze a post like that, do some more research on some of this stuff. and if you try to say they don't make a turbo kit for those cars, i'll prove it too you.

[InvaderGST]

Bedlam, read my post again. It specifically says unless you buy a turbo kit you will never need such an upgrade...... Without a turbo kit you are not boosting anything. I am well aware they make a turbo kit for the 420A engine at Hahn Racecraft. I'm just pointing out it is a pointless upgrade for the shift kit if you are not running any decent power.

[bedlam32570]

for the shift kit i am talking about this is the info that i have on it

**TransGo Transmission Re-Programming Kits**

TRANSGO Kits instantly re-program automatic transmissions for high performance and durability.
Unique kits re-calibrate the transmission to shift far more efficiently.
In terms of performance and durability for an automatic transmission, the most important improvement that can be made is to re-program the Control Assemblies. These assemblies regulate the functions of the entire transmission; 95% of shift performance comes from programming. Installing a Trans-Go Re-programming Kit will instantly improve the whole personality of your GM, FORD and CHRYSLER transmissions.
Factory programming achieves comfort.
The automatic transmissions coming off the assembly lines in Detroit are truly masterpieces of engineering. But engineers have been asked to program the shifting for smoothness and comfort. Also, consumer attitude surveys show that drivers believe a soft, smooth shift is easier on the transmission. Actually, just the reverse is true.
To add comfort, Detroit designers have had to subtract a considerable amount of efficiency and durability. They have achieved comfort by extending the time duration of every shift. Not only does power slip away during this extended shift, but all friction surfaces receive excessive wear because they are asked to work overtime.


The stock automatic takes longer to complete each shift. Points A to B, Figure 1 show only mild acceleration. During this period only a partial power condition exists because the friction elements are slipping.
This extended slipping time prevents the inertial energy from being efficiently utilized. It is lost in the form of heat on the clutches and bands, instead of being utilized for forward motion. Continually operating a stock automatic at full throttle will cause early friction element failure.

To get high performance and improved durability in an automatic, we must improve the way it executes every shift.

Trans-Go re-programming achieves durability and performance.
So if you are willing to accept a faster shift, which will subtract some comfort, you can restore full performance and durability. This is exactly what a Trans-Go Re-Programming Kit does for you. It makes each shift faster and more efficient. As a result, durability of the transmission is immediately doubled.
Re-Programming Goal:Make the shift faster without losing precision.
The problem now becomes clear that what we need is re-programming that will precisely control the complicated chain of events that occur during every shift and do it in a far briefer span of time.
This is exactly what Trans-Go has accomplished. Trans-Go kits cut slipping time by more than 70% (even more in the Competition version) and at the same time improve the quality of the shifting action itself. Figs 1 and 2 show the results.


there is a benefit to putting this shift kit into your car even if you don't have a turbo kit. just because you dont' have a turbo doesn't mean that you don't need a shift kit. it's just personal preference. if you want better shifting then go for it.

[brynden29]

Hmmm, turbo kit for a Non-turbo, I don't believe it.

What's wrong with my Dodge Neon engine?

[babybeclipse]

Originally posted by InvaderGST
Bedlam, read my post again. It specifically says unless you buy a turbo kit you will never need such an upgrade...... Without a turbo kit you are not boosting anything. I am well aware they make a turbo kit for the 420A engine at Hahn Racecraft. I'm just pointing out it is a pointless upgrade for the shift kit if you are not running any decent power.

Hey, every upgrade helps. Plus there are other ways of making power without a turbo :D

Damn, I love sleepers ;)

[InvaderGST]

I'm not going to sit here an argue with you non turbo guys. Of course any mod will make your car faster, but there is no mod out there for the 420A engine besides the turbo kit or a nos kit that would make any decent power at the wheels and that was my point. You could actually make a Dodge Neon run faster since it is lighter in weight. YOu can make any car a little faster. The plain and simple point is you guys can spend thousands of dollars and still not be able to take on a stock TSi or GS-T. Especially a stock automatic non turbo is gonna be a 17-18 second car in the quarter.

[bedlam32570]

tell you what, once i get all my turbo parts installed on my car, i'll do a run at the track and post my time here. course it'll be alittle bit cause i still need some more parts and put the whole thing together. and here's something to chew on. here's the time of the hahnracecraft neon 9.88 @ 151 MPH. now tell me that's not impressive for a non-turbo car.

and besides my point was that i was just adding something for the 420a guys and criticized it just because it was for a non-turbo car.

[InvaderGST]

Companies or websites will tell you times with there turbo's and you'll learn that when they say there car went 10 seconds with a certain turbo doesn't mean you'll get those times. Every car is different. Every setup is different. A drag car and a street car is total different story. The pathetic thing about this arguement is I have specifically stated over and over in every response is that you will not need the shift kit unless you run some power with a turbo kit or a n2o kit. Plain and simple. I swear you are not reading my posts all the way. As every response you are saying they make turbo kits for our cars. I KNOW THIS. And I love when people talk trash when they argue about something that they do not have. If you have a turbo kit on your car and you are running true numbers then you can talk. But speaking hypothically is a joke. I have a 20G Turbo. It does enough airflow to produce 400 HP at the wheels. Doesn't mean my car can do it. If that Neon did 9.9 seconds in a quarter that thing is gutted, has a race engine-forged pistons, rings, head job, etc. Another $10,000 of mods on top of the turbo kit. A stock non turbo engine would be lucky as hell to handle 9-10 psi of boost as the compression is higher. You'll snap a piston. I can go on and on, but obviously I'm arguing with a guy who doesn't read my posts clearly and who has so many mods on his car that he is boosting 90-100HP at the wheels. Add your turbo kit on your stock engine and be lucky to be in the 15's. Boost higher and you'll need a new engine.

[Blackboost]

Friendly advice...

Stay on topic and leave out the bashing...

[bedlam32570]

you know i am reading your posts all the way. i added that stuff to your list for non-turbos due to the fact that some people are bias to non-turbo. i was just trying to help out some of the non-turbo people on this board and you say it's pointless to add a shift kit to a car if you don't have a turbo or nos. why dont' you let those people decide and quit bashing me for trying to help out some of the non-turbo 420a people on this board.

[fauchpj]

lucky to be in the 15s with a turbo kit? the fastest 2gnt is running 15.3 or 15.4 with minor mods and daily driven

[turbo terror]

I want some more info on that trans-go reprogramming kit. Link?

[ProDodgeBall]

Hey everybody after all the running in circles in these forums, I finally found a dealer of both the alto end clutch and the translab shift kit. The best part is, this shop sells the shift kit for 26 bucks!!! I was given this price over the phone today, I'll be heading down this weekend to pick it up. I'm paranoid that he made a mistake and will be charging me 75 when I get there, but if its for real I'll post the shops name and info on here A.S.A.P.

[sp00ln]

Originally posted by InvaderGST
I'm not going to sit here an argue with you non turbo guys. Of course any mod will make your car faster, but there is no mod out there for the 420A engine besides the turbo kit or a nos kit that would make any decent power at the wheels and that was my point. You could actually make a Dodge Neon run faster since it is lighter in weight. YOu can make any car a little faster. The plain and simple point is you guys can spend thousands of dollars and still not be able to take on a stock TSi or GS-T. Especially a stock automatic non turbo is gonna be a 17-18 second car in the quarter.

True...

[loreak]

anyone have a good site that sells transgo shift kits and one that sells translab kits.