2g FWD poly motor mount question

[GST-97]

OK, I hate wheelhop. I am sure all of you FWD people out there have to agree :)

my question.... ok, poly motor mounts are cheap. And I have heard they really can help with wheel hop.... at the expense of having more vibration at idle.

Now, I had thought that installing these consisted of taking out the stock mount, and putting the new one in its place... but recently, someone with a 1g told me they had to cut their motor mount apart in order to install the poly ones.

Is this true of 2g's?
I thought that they were a direct replacement part.

So, if any of you 2g'rs have installed poly mounts, let me know how hard it is. The reason I wonder if you gotta cut them apart, is cuz if I dont like the vibration, and want to put it back, I wont be able to if I cut my mount all to hell.

thanks,
Chris

97-GST

[fourg63]

2nd gen motor mounts are just inserts.They insert into your stock motor mount to stiffen it up.Your stock mounts must be in good condition and clean before inserting the poly inserts.

[speeding_gsx]

fourg63 has it right...

The Energy Suspension Kit is made up of inserts. The kit is cheap ... it is the install that sucks - I had mine installed. If you want to attempt to install them yourself Road Race Engineering has a write-up on the procedure. Check out: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/energymotormountnstructions.htm for the details

I have them installed on my '95 GST [currently for sale]. My initial reason for buying them was because I was going through engine mounts like crazy from engine torque. As for being effective, I swear by them. Idle does roughen up the ride a bit, but you can adjust your idle or hold you the tach at a grand at stops without feeling it.

Pete W. - 97 GSX - Tucson AZ

TRE 16G, 3" Eliminator DownPipe, 3" Cat, 3" B&B Triflo Exhaust, 2.25" Extreme IC Piping, Greddy Profec B and T.Timer, MSD DIS-2, Apexi FMIC and Super AFC, InJen Intake, Clustmasters Kevlar Clutch, JUN Lightened FlyWheel, Walbro 270 LPH Fuel Pump, Greddy Boost and EGT Gauges, RM Racing Sway Bars and HID/Xenon HeadLight Kit, Eibach SportLine Springs, Tokico Adjustable Struts, 17x8 TSX V1 Rims, and 225/40ZR17 Nitto Extreme 555 Tires ... and my latest addition, a TCE 12.2" Wilwood Brake Kit - simple awesome.

[GST-97]

Thanks a lot.

Just the info I wanted to know :)

-Chris
97 GS-T

[DSMHanz]

can any of you guys tell me what causes the tire hop, and will inserting the motor mounts totally get rid of it???

[GST-97]

Well, the wheel hop comes from the enging being able to move becuase the front and rear motor mounts are rubbery.

I am guessing mitsu does this for ride comfort and shit, but god damn is it annoying!

From what I have heard, the only way to totally get rid of it is to get the entire mount kit (front, rear and 2 sides) or to weld the mounts to the subframe :)

but the front and rear are supposed to REALLY help, and I really hope so!

-Chris
97 GS-T

[bill9009]

Would bad motor mounst cause your car to shake at highway speeds?

[GST-97]

I wouldnt think so... usually shaking up at higher speeds is alignment or wheel balancing.

motor mounts come more into play when you take off, or let off the gas quickly, or shift cuz the motor will move when you apply power again.

[speeding_gsx]

bill9009,

As to your question, are you FWD or AWD? Reason being if you are AWD, driveline problems may factor into the answer.

As for possible causes. Here goes:
1) Alignment Problems
2) Wheel Balancing
3) Tire Damage (blisters on sidewalls)
4) Rim Damage (tacos from pot-holes)

... and again back to driveline problems if you are AWD.

Check these out, it should give you some insight as to what the problem might be.

Pete W. - 97 GSX - Tucson AZ

TRE 16G, 3" Eliminator DownPipe, 3" Cat, 3" B&B Triflo Exhaust, 2.25" Extreme IC Piping, Greddy Profec B and T.Timer, MSD DIS-2, Apexi FMIC and Super AFC, InJen Intake, Clustmasters Kevlar Clutch, JUN Lightened FlyWheel, Walbro 270 LPH Fuel Pump, Greddy Boost and EGT Gauges, RM Racing Sway Bars and HID/Xenon HeadLight Kit, Eibach SportLine Springs, Tokico Adjustable Struts, 17x8 TSX V1 Rims, and 225/40ZR17 Nitto Extreme 555 Tires ... and my latest addition, a TCE 12.2" Wilwood Brake Kit - simply awesome.

[95GST]

Hi, I thought the ES mounts were complete replacements, but if they are inserts, should I get some new factory mounts before installing the ES mounts?

[fourg63]

That depends.If your stock mounts are in good condition, then just get the inserts.

[dsmperformance]

Most likely, you will not need new factory engine mounts. I imagine they are not cheap to replace. Just get the ES poly insterts. You will notice a difference with them installed. Wheel hop will be reduced too. You will have some vibes at idle though. I'd hate to install the rear one without removing the transmission.

[DSMHanz]

97-GST!! do you plan on installing the es motor mounts yourself or do you plan on bringing it to someone? please keep me updated on this upgrade because i am also very interested in doing it. how often does wheel hop happen to you and how come other cars like civics and integras dont seem to have this problem. i really would like to know what it feels like to accelerate hard in first without wheel hop

[95GST]

Well because Fourg63 said his mounts are torn, I'm worried about mine because I can see the engine is shaky compare to my friend's stock talon. I think it's the best when you do the clutch and have the tranny out.

Hopefully ES mounts will make my first gear my favorite gear ;)

[fourg63]

95GST
I didn't say my mounts were torn.I'd be pretty pissed if they were.Anyway,if you decide to put in the ES inserts,inspect the motor mounts for damage.If they are damaged,replace them before putting in the inserts.
It takes a lot to damage those puppies.
Even though I got the inserts and a QUAIFE LSD I still get big time wheelspin in 1st.Better wheelspin than wheel hop.

[95GST]

Thanks Mario..
Wheel spin is good.. the problem now is I floor 1st gear it is unpredictable if it will hop or not, depends on the road and humidity. I don't even dare to launch my car hopefully it will be more fun with the motor mount inserts :)

[GST-97]

I ordered my inserts today from RRE, and they should be sent out tomorrow :)

I'm gonna put them in myself, and I will attempt to put the rear one in WITH tranny in place.
I really dont wanna pull it. :)

I'll let you know how much it helps me once I get them in.

-Chris

[bill9009]

speeding_gsx
no its a FWD, and i just got new rims so they arent bent and they were just balanced and the car was also alighned and it did it before all that was done and after

[speeding_gsx]

Bill9009,

Hmmm, FWD with new rims, tires that had no previous problems, balanced wheels .. and an alingment? Sounds like you covered everything I would have thought of. If it's cool, I would go back to the place where you got everything mounted and balanced .. and either ask them to re-check their balancing, or drag one of those guys out on the road for a 'shakey' ride. It's front wheel drive so there's only so much it could be. Just an opinion, good luck.

Sorry about the un-timely response .. I'd like to know how this turns out.

[Phoenix]

Honestly, the Energy Suspension inserts don't do squat. I had them, and noticed it at first, but when I took them out they were all rubbery and stupid.

I've since upgraded to the Prothane kit. You have to have the stock rubber bearing pressed out of the bracket, but boy oh boy. You can grab the valve cover and shake that engine as hard as you can, and it doesn't move :) You start the car and look at your engine, and it's not moving :)

Naturally, you REALLY feel it in the car, but if you have a built and balanced motor, do it. You'll like it :) It's really cool to HEAR the tranny gears meshing inside the car.

[95GST]

Where can I get Prothane kit? Is it also made by ES?

I notice you have a AWD so you don't really have as much a problem as FWD anyway.

[Phoenix]

The Prothane kit is made by Prothane. Info is available at...you guessed it...http://www.prothane.com

It's available at Extreme for like $90.

[bill9009]

speeding_gsx,
what about a bad cv-joint?

[GST-97]

Phoenix: Really? they suck that much?

Well, I already have mine ordered, and a few other FWD owners I have asked said they do help quite a bit.
If they help my wheelhop ANY bit, they are worth the $23 IMO :)

[95GST]

I think phenoix is also saying those prothane suckers vibrates the car alot, so if your car is like your daily driver.. maybe just stay with ES.

I search the DSM.org for prothane engine mounts and nothing comes up??

[Phoenix]

I never said that they suck :) I meant that if you don't know to feel/hear EVERYTHING that your car is doing, these are not for you. I like 'em, but it kinda takes away from the "nice 2g" feel to it.

[dsmperformance]

98GST:
The ES insterts will give you slight vibes at idle. The ES inserts are just for only 2 mounts. The prothane is all 4 mounts. Naturally, if you replace all the mounts with something a bit more solid, like prothane, you will get more vibes. But again, you will just notice the vibes when your sitting still at idle. No matter what one you choose, they WILL help out with performance.

[95GST]

Ok guys now you confuse me. I thought the ES inserts have all four as well.

Here is what I got on the extreme website

Energy Suspensions Motor Mounts [EXM2512] $24.00
For the driver's side, these upgraded motor mounts are much stronger than the weak stock units. These yield quicker launches at the drag strip, as the engine torque will be transferred quicker to the ground.

Total Kit Prothane Motor Mounts [EXM2515] $85.00
A set of four urethane bushings that replace the stock rubber motor mounts. These are stronger than stock and restrict and cushion the motor as it torques. As with the Energy Suspension bushings, these yield quicker drag strip launches while reducing wheel hop. Red in color, these include complete instructions.


Well it is over 3 times more expensive .. but cheaper than broken drivetrain parts :)

[dsmperformance]

95GST:
I hope this will clairify things about the diffence. The ES kit consists of four inserts and 2 washers. Two inserts get inserted to the front mount and two get inserted in the rear motor mount. This kit will only do two of the mounts. If vibration is a big concern with you, I would use the ES kit. I personally have the ES kit and they seem to work rather well. The rear one it a bit tricky to install though, but well worth the work.


The Prothane kit consists of all 4 mounts. I never actually hands on experience with this kit, but I do believe you will need to press them into your mount replacing the factory rubber. This kit will mount your engine "more" solid and also transmit more vibrations from a stock, unballanced engine.


To sum things up, the ES does two mounts and the Prothane does all four.

[95GST]

Well I think I'll stick with the ES, I don't mind the paying $85 for the prothanes but seeing how my engine shakes now (stock, unbuilt) I don't think I'll enjoy teeth rattling idle.

Because mine is a daily car not a race car no need to go all race parts.

[GST-97]

Well, I got my mounts in the mail today.

I already put in the front mount, didnt even have to jack the car up :)
Took all of 10 minutes or so.

Let me tell you.... it REALLY makes a difference... even with just the front one. My car still hops, but so much less severe, and I can actually get traction now... now its just time to throw these damn RS-A's out though. Cuz now I need the extra traction so I dont just spin the tires :)

If I get the rear one in, I'll let ya know if its better too :)

oh yeah, after putting in the front motor mount, the car did have a little extra vibration, but hardly even noticable.

[speeding_gsx]

Hey bill9009,

Funny you should mention the cv joints. I was washing my car this weekend, and I pulled off the driver's side wheel to find the inner cv ripped to shreds. Based on what I saw, if your boot is ripped, and the joint is without lube ... it could make your car squirm pretty good. Myself, I'm gonna attempt to have the work done under warranty [45,003 miles] since it is one heck of a job. Let me know what you find.

[tfin]

Hey if you want a good and cheep way to get solid motor mounts you can do this. Take the mount out and cover one side, then lay it on its side and fill it with urithane. The kind that you would install a winshield with. It makes a totaly solid mount and will eliminate wheel hop.

[GST-97]

Man, I went to go attempt to put the rear mount in today.

key word being ATTEMPT :)

I took out the battery, tray, and the tray holder.... finally was able to access some of it, but had no room for leverage to break the bolts free.

Doesnt look like I will have a new rear motor mount insert in anytime soon :(
And after looking at it, I think it would be 10x easier with the tranny out :)

oh well, the front one did help a lot too

[95GST]

Well just be careful if you Only have the front one, you'll put more stress on the rear one, so don't launch or anything. You said no leverage to get it loose? would a air ratchet work?

[GST-97]

Well, an air ratchet might help, if you have a long long extension :)
In order to get through all the stuff, I needed 3 extensions for the ratchet.... and that wouldnt work for the crossbolt that goes through the mount itself.

And just having the front one wont put more stress on the rear one. Since having the front one keeps the engine from moving so much, it would also be putting less stress on the rear

[GST-97]

hot DAMN man..... I got advice from someone on another way to do the rear mount... so I jacked the car up, supported it, got underneath and wow, that looks easy.
There are 3 bolts that hold on the main bracket, so I tried to loosen one of these bolts... which was hard to get at... and COULD NOT get it loose.... and its not that I am a weakling, I am a fairly well built guy. But I could not for the life of me get that damn bolt loose.

oh well, looks like no rear motor mount for me :(

[SlamdTSI AWD]

the Rear is a PAIN you will have to take out the braket thats on the trans to get it out. theres 3 bolts on it they are about 2" away from the firewall with the head at the friewall threadded towards the front they are 17mm by the wau. They are a big Pain in the @$$ since there isnt really enough room to get any leverage to break them free.

[HRC Engineering]

Man, as simple as this seems, the best bet to control wheel hop: get out of the throttle a bit! Stiffer mounts will help, but the actual cause is wheelspin and then sudden hookup. You will already know when the car is likely to hop: feather the throttle a bit to maintain traction thru those areas. Don't worry about confusing the engine management thru using less than WOT: the loads achievable in 1st and 2nd are insufficient to cause a lean problem if you feather the throttle.

[DSMHanz]

hey guyz!!!!
im very happy to announce that i had the energy suspension motor mounts installed, and i am very pleased with the results. i am now able to push the accelerator down 3/4 without any hop or peeling out, but i still get some hop(not too severe) at WOT. im gonna try putting on some strut bars and hopefully this will help to eliminate the hop. im looking at the neuspeed strut bars, they are made of steel, not aluminum, have a four point attachment, and im not sure but i think they are non adjustable(they're a little cheaper than the RRE's), what do you think? anywayz thanks for the info youve given so far and ill keep you guys informed. oh yeah almost forgot, the vibration is not really bad, you cant even tell if you keep the radio up adn another thing, dun try to install yourself. i bought my car to the mechanic and saw what they had to do to get out the rear mount DAMMMMMM!!!!

[GST-97]

I took my car to a friends house tonight... heated bigass garage... and had help doing my rear mount.. WHAT A GOD DAMN BITCH!.
A guy on IRC told me to try a 3' extension and a swivel socket thing... worked like a charm... still took quite a while, and the bolts were kinda warped, but they came out, and I got the rear mounts installed.
I no longer have any hop. My car vibrated a lot, but I upped the idle a little bit, cuz it was idling at like 500 rpm's and very little extra vibration now.

I tried and tried, and could not hop the wheels, they just spun.. .I can take off to much quicker with these ES inserts installed...best 23 dollars so far :)

I am so glad I finally got this damn thing installed.... and I really thank my friend Than for helping me.... He is a friend of my other friend, and I am just getting to know him... I found out today while I was at their house that he is ASE certified and stuff. He was a BIG BIG help.

To those looking to put in rear ES mounts, get a friend to help and use a LONG extension a swivel thing.... was fairly easy once we had the right tools :)

[95GST]

So 3 FEET extension and a swivel socket?

What size of socket do I need?

did you say 3 FEET?????

[GST-97]

Well, I call it a 3foot extension LOL.... its more like 1.5-2 feet long I think really... you need a long extension, cuz 2 of the bolts that hold the manifold on, you need to access from inbetween the intake mani and the firewall :)

just get a LONG extension, and using a deep well socket gives you some extra reach and can help you keep thesocket on the bolt.

The socket you need is 14mm. There are 3 bolts that hold the mount to the chassis, one on the passenger side, and 2 on the driver side of the mount. You need to remove the battery, the plastic tray, and removing the metal part (4 12mm bolts) that the plastic tray sits on also helps.

also, there is a 14mm bolt that runs through the center of the mount. To do this, find a 14mm open end wrench and manuever it onto the passenger side of the bolt.... otherwise when you turn the nut off the other side, it will just spin :) ... put the box end of the wrench on there and when you start turning the other side, it should wedge itself somewhere so you can turn the ratchet on the other side.

It took quite a while for us to do it, but it IS possible.

And the 3 bolts that hold my mount to the chassis sounded HORRIBLE coming out... Reason was cuz they were all stretched, but they came out, and went back in fine.... for some of you, maybe before you do it, just buy 3 new bolts incase, I wish I had them, but I did this starting at like 1am :)

anyway.... have fun installing :)

[Turbo96Eclipse]

i did my front and rear mounts a while ago and yes the rear was a pain becasue there was no leverage. i found that you can also get to the mount from under than car. you have to twist an turn the mount around after you get it unbolted to just get it out of there so you can put the inserts in. After all that work i wish i would have bought the prothane bushings and pressed them in... i have a press in my garage too.. dont know what i was thinkin

[zoomail]

i have the prothane mounts in my car. the front and rear mounts were inserts only. the two side were pressed in (actually the mechanic used a blow torch). the car does vibrate alot.

[ughhhead]

well now, i see that almost every single person that replied to this thread has a gst, well unfortunatly my wallet can't support that much fun so i have a '96 N/T. If i do start out hard i still do get some wheel hop. would the ES inserts be more practical to non turbos since we obviously don't have the power to get as much wheel hop as turbos. i was going to do the ES inserts myself. thanks.

[zoomail]

If your on a budget, some ppl just fill their mounts with windo weld.

[ughhhead]

windo weld? i've never heard of that before, that sounds like a simple trip to the local home depot. in order to fill the mounts with that stuff, does the motor have to be out of the car or can that stuff be put in all of the motor mounts with the engine in? and again the point of stiffer motor mounts are to stop engine movement which prevents wheel hop and does that also mean that more torque is put to the ground ?

[EuroGSTSpyder]

so a question..; Where do you find these ES inserts for a 23 $ ? I am on teh trax soon and a little help with traction/wheelhop would be great.Where can I find them and get them fast enough over here??*lol*

[zoomail]

roadraceengineering.com

[EuroGSTSpyder]

sorry..my bad :-(

[zoomail]

Originally posted by ughhhead
windo weld? i've never heard of that before, that sounds like a simple trip to the local home depot. in order to fill the mounts with that stuff, does the motor have to be out of the car or can that stuff be put in all of the motor mounts with the engine in? and again the point of stiffer motor mounts are to stop engine movement which prevents wheel hop and does that also mean that more torque is put to the ground ?


www.raktron.com/misc/mt.htm

[ughhhead]

daaaaamn zoomail, that is the link that answered all of my questions! thanks a ton dude. and as for where else you can get ES motor mounts... summitracing.com, 19.95 with free shipping. that's a hard bargin to beat.

[1Fast96RS]

old thread but have questions, are the DOHC neon ones the same for the 420a engines in the eclipse, im getting a new motor in adn wanna swap em out, but howell only lists them for the neons like alot of there parts or should i just nut up and go to RRE like everyone else.

[mywhirl2]

K, so I installed my mounts couple hours ago.
I wished I did it when i was doin my clutch, would of save alot of time and bleedin knockles ;)

its not that bad though,
remove the battery, speed sensor, get a short 14 socket, swivel, and about a 2 foot extention and you'll be fine.

its prolly a waste of time to try remove the center bolt before moving the mount, maybe u'll get lucky. I removed the 3 bolts on the frame, 2 or the tranny, then slide the mount near the axle so i have more space to work with.

I still have a of tad hop though, but it was greatly reduced and less violent.
on a scale from 1-10(10 being worse), my wheel hop use to be like a 8
after i installed the Front an rear insert, my hop now is like a 3

I'm still on stock suspension, so If upgrade that, and do the prothane sides also,I'm guessing it should be completely eliminated.

It also feels a bit more responsive and more solid when I shift, I dont hear that clonk anymore :), I dont have to slip it as much slip it as much now.

as for the vibration, I was expection more after hearin all this hype.
Its really not that bad. as first I BARELY noticed it, probably because the car was cold and idling at about 1200rpms.
but then at the traffic light is when I began to feel the it, you notice when takin off and reversin more, but nothing I cant bare with, If you cant, just bump the rpms to 1000 and u shouldn't be that bad

[zoomail]

Which color did you get hard red or softer black?


Originally posted by mywhirl2
K, so I installed my mounts couple hours ago.
I wished I did it when i was doin my clutch, would of save alot of time and bleedin knockles ;)

its not that bad though,
remove the battery, speed sensor, get a short 14 socket, swivel, and about a 2 foot extention and you'll be fine.

its prolly a waste of time to try remove the center bolt before moving the mount, maybe u'll get lucky. I removed the 3 bolts on the frame, 2 or the tranny, then slide the mount near the axle so i have more space to work with.

I still have a of tad hop though, but it was greatly reduced and less violent.
on a scale from 1-10(10 being worse), my wheel hop use to be like a 8
after i installed the Front an rear insert, my hop now is like a 3

I'm still on stock suspension, so If upgrade that, and do the prothane sides also,I'm guessing it should be completely eliminated.

It also feels a bit more responsive and more solid when I shift, I dont hear that clonk anymore :), I dont have to slip it as much slip it as much now.

as for the vibration, I was expection more after hearin all this hype.
Its really not that bad. as first I BARELY noticed it, probably because the car was cold and idling at about 1200rpms.
but then at the traffic light is when I began to feel the it, you notice when takin off and reversin more, but nothing I cant bare with, If you cant, just bump the rpms to 1000 and u shouldn't be that bad