Sucky times for Sucky Auto

[fu98765]

Alright, now my automatic transmission is by far the weak point of my car. If I had a 5 spd I would be roasting stuff..... well, I'd be doing a lot better. :o Anyway, this is the problem I have, my TC will only stall to like 2300rpm. So...... my 14B will not spool on launches.


Heres my best track time with a stock 14B@14psi, stock DP and Cat, Apexi N1 catback, no ported anything, and manual shifts (all of my other mods listed in my sig minus ported stuff:

R/T .572 (not important you clowns)

60' 2.726

330 7.171

1/8 10.667

MPH 72.43

1000 13.613

1/4 16.114

MPH 89.66 (almost 90 yeah!)


Now since that horrible, horrible day :( I got a full Apexi N1 exhaust, but then I got horrible boost creep and turbo still will not spool for launches. So..... then I got a ported O2 housing. Still boost creep. So... now in a couple of days I will be getting a fully ported Team RIP 7cm^2 w/ 34mm WG flapper and hopefully that will end the boost creep forever. Along with this going in I will also put in my FP rewire.

No with that being said.... can I expect any significant gains?

I mean shit. I at least want 95 mph here.

What can I expect with all of these mods:

14B 7cm^2 ported by Team RIP
Full N1 exhaust (no cat of course ;))
Ported O2
15psi
Pump gas

Any insight as to why my TC sucks? Will a tranny flush help out? Maybe with some new cool Diamond ATF?

Throw me a bone here.


Rob

[R.Y.N.O (98GSX)]

My name is Roger...hehehe.
Robert, you clown, its all about the trap speed right! Your damn right, cause thats where the power is! Anyway, I'm putting my money on that you'll at least be very very close to 100 if not more than 100mph, such as 102mph trap speeds! I'm sure you will be amazed as to I will be not seeing you in my rearview as much...LOL. J/K! Your car is going to be rock'n. We we'll be rock n/ the sub-burbs over x-mas break making are video and leaving Eric and his new "stock" talon awd train lenghts behind!
Cya, Thursday night bro!
-Ryan

[Jclipse]

Those do sound like some bad times..I don't know what could really be wrong though I'm not that smart hehe. But, with my 2g fwd eclipse I was pulling 2.1 60' times and 15.7's in the 1/4 with nothing but apexi n1 cat-back and a big ass box with 2 12's in the hatch. So, keep practicing or maybe you've got something like a boost leak? Who knows..not me, but anyways good luck I know you can do better than that!:D

[DCJ98GST]

After reading alot of post of peoples stall rpm, I have come to conclude that every TC is different. My stock TC stalls at 3200 to 3400 rpm. I guess I am lucky. :D

I think nano has had three different tranny's and I think he said that they all stalled at different speeds too.

[GoldÐiamond]

why did you manual shift? I don't think that does anything, I may be wrong though. I hope you didn't have it in Econ-mode, or the Overdrive turned on. I had a 91 TSi AWD Auto, it was a little fast.

[nano]

I had two stock TCs and one highstall. The high stall would easily go to 3600 and slowly up to 3800rpm. All the stock ones easily go to 3800rpm no problems. Three different trannies too. Even my buddy with a fully stock 97TSI AT ran a 15.7 @ 87mph with a 2.1 60ft. I got a 1.8 60fts with preaty much the same mods you have on the stock TC. It ran a 14.2 @ 94mph, w pump gas and 16psi, stock injectors, no fuel management. just full exhaust, w cat, stock intake box. Don't know what to tell you, something must not be working right on that setup.

[fu98765]

Well yeah you're right, that you are wrong about the manual shifting bit. If you just let the car shift for itself it shifts like shit and I got like a 17 sec quarter.

Well since nobody wanted to answer my question about what difference I will see when I can hit WOT without blowing up my engine I will just post it when I put on my 7cm^2 housing.


I have a shift kit and end clutch sitting in my garage. I'm afraid to put them in though. Maybe not so much the end clutch.


Rob

[91_Talon_Owner]

At this years DSM shootout, my car was in tip top condition, (no boost leaks, timing was dead on, timing not getting pulled Etc.) and i ran a 16.042 @ 89.??? - that was my *best* run... this was also without a boost controller, but I did have my boost gauge hooked up. I was running about 8-9 lbs of boost steady through the whole run. Now mind you, I had just put a shit-ton of work into the motor: 95 pistons (.5mm over), balanced the entire reciprocating assembly to within .001g, balance shaft removal, port and polish the cylinder head, replaced the auto cams with manual cams, 450 injectors, and the manual ECU. I thought for sure I would at least see low 15's with that setup, but shit happens... A month later, I turned up the boost to 17lbs with a fuel pump re-wire, and the car had a whole new personality. I actually squaked the tires... which was unheard of in this car beforehand...
Every car runs different, and different circumstances will affect cars differently... That said, looking at your timeslip is like rolling back the clock on my car... The whole slip is within tenths of my best run...

Get yourself some engine mods, and some way of datalogging, and crank the boost up.

For the record, my car has since died from timing belt autotensioner failure... *RIP*

-Eric McCabe

[Blackboost]

Just my $0.02...

A 14B with a 7cm^2 housing will only contribute with more turbo lag...
:(

[anconover]

yea ur lookin at lag right there, and u got a full 3" exh with a 14b? lil overkill in my opinion but wont go there cause itll be debated for 6weeks. run it without manual shifting, in just drive. and post results because manual shifting may seem to help, but not always, especially because when u shift, it doesnt shift then it takes a few seconds wich isnt usually a good thing. just to see whats what if that made ANY diff.

[fu98765]

Bigger and better things always come along someday. Why not just get a full 3in? Apexi felt that it wasn't overkill. I can't believe you would even bring up the overkill bit. What are you a sissy? Besides the Apexi system is high quality and isn't that expensive either.

You guys treat me like I'm some idiot. I did 16 runs that night that I got that 16 sec 1/4. I tried every combination. I know it takes a few seconds for it to shift. I hit rev limiter a couple of times, but on that 16 sec run I shifted freaking perfectly. It was soooooo nice.

Yeah, you're right about the turbo lag with the bigger housing, but we race from a roll out here anyway.


I just want the highest damn trap speed in the world. That is the real reason for this post. I want to know what I'll trap at with my new mods. Oh and I wanted someone to tell me that my TC is screwed to hell. That'd make about everything on my car. Might as well complete the circle.

Rob..................haha 3in overkill..........lol

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by fu98765

You guys treat me like I'm some idiot. I did 16 runs that night that I got that 16 sec 1/4. I tried every combination. I know it takes a few seconds for it to shift. I hit rev limiter a couple of times, but on that 16 sec run I shifted freaking perfectly. It was soooooo nice.


No one is treating you like an idiot or something along those lines. We are only trying to contribute here with some input that might help you go faster...:o

[R.Y.N.O (98GSX)]

Rob, I'm telling you man, you will be at least 8mph faster in your trap speed! I mean hell, I ran a 96mph trap speed in an awd full weight gsx without race gas. There are some guys on here running that same trap speed with at T-28 "Bluntdogg", no hard feelings. But you, I have a feeling! Like I've been telling you all along, something amazing is goign to happen to your car and we are all going to envy YOU!!!! If you want you car to be faster dammit, I'm here to bust my knuckles making it that way! We have a hole month off from school to try different things with your car! I know we can make shit happen!
-Ryan
p.s. They don't call me the Jew King for nothing:D

[Gopherhog]

lets get some NAAAAWS to get that turbo spooling off the line :P

[fu98765]

I appreciate all of your help everyone. My car really frustrates me sometimes though.

When I get all this stuff put in I'll tell ya how it goes.


What is the website for the Home Depot Racing intake pressurization system? I might as well check for boost leaks.


Rob

[nano]

When I first went to the track with most of my current mods I ran a 14.8@ 93mph. I used to think my car was a slow POS. After spending all summer tunning I ran a 13.3 with the same setup. So just keep trying different things and don't give up. Check for boost leaks. Check your A/F ratio. Get an EGT gauge or a logger to monitor knock. Just keep trying and eventually you'll find the flaw and learn from past mistakes.

[fu98765]

I just built my intake leak tester tonight. Damn nice piece of work I must say. Anyway, I'll test the intake tomorrow I think. Tell ya how it goes.



Rob

[Boostin'X']

i ran a 15.5 with a 96mph trap speed with ic pipes mbc bov and a filter, with major boost leakage. Now I can't wait till march to test the new turbo out. Mine stalls aroun 2500 everyones is different.

[fu98765]

Does your turbo spool at that stall? Also, where are the most common places to have a leak?


Rob

[nano]

Even with cams that encrease lag I still start to make boost at 2200rpm. I can make about 15psi by 3000rpm and full boost, 18psi by 3300rpm. Check for leaks at your BOV and clamps. Also make sure your turbo housing nipple is covered up and that all hoses are connected.

[fu98765]

Will do. I can't wait to see exactly how the test turns out. THe VFAQ says that it is pretty evident where the air is leaking out. I hope I can at least charge the system up to 15psi and it hold long enough to do some checking. I'm sure my system can at least pressurize because I don't experience noticable idle problems or anything like that. Oh and I can hit 22psi if I allow it to creep high enough.



Rob

[DCJ98GST]

Dont even try to hand pump your intake. It will take forever and if you have even a slow leak it will not get past 8 psi.

I bought a little air compressor from target for like $45 it gets to 20psi in like 30 seconds.

[fu98765]

I got an air compressor. I keep it in the back on top of my spare. It is one of those emergency pumps that works off the cigarette lighter. Actually, it works quite well in non-emergency situations.


I built an awesome intake leak tester to pressurize my system.


Rob

[veritas]

Originally posted by fu98765

What can I expect with all of these mods:

14B 7cm^2 ported by Team RIP
Full N1 exhaust (no cat of course ;))
Ported O2
15psi
Pump gas



Rob [/B]


Dude, Please tell me that u have at least some type of aftermarket filter, Intake, aftermarket BOV and u've changed all ur intercooler piping? That crap is a major restriction...

I'm sure u have...right?:confused:

[fu98765]

Check out my sig at the top. ;)


Rob

[veritas]

Me = Blind...

[nano]

Another way to check for leaks is to buy one of those air tanks from wall mart for $19. They're so you can fill tires with air. Just take it to a gas station fill it with 100psi of air and you'll have lots of air to play with when you get home. Also spray the pipes with glass cleaner or soapy water and you'll see it buble where it leaks.

[fu98765]

I just pressre tested my intake and alll of my IC houses all the way up to the throttle body don't leak a damn thing. However I hear a really loud rush of air from around the Turbo somewhere. I think it might be the J pipe where it connects to the 14B outlet. The J pipe I have is a huge RRE version. The only problem is I can't figure out where the air is rushing out from. I just pput a ton of sealant around the J pipe flange, but if that doesn't stop it where else might it be coming out? Does the turbo itself leak, maybe the housing?:dunno:


Rob

[Blackboost]

See if the band clamp (the metal band that holds the center section of the turbo to the turbine housing) is tight enough. It is hold together by a screw with a 10mm nut.;)

[fu98765]

But that is the exhaust side man, not the intake side.


Rob

[nano]

Does the compressor housing have a nipple on it? If it does make sure it's caped. How much preasure can you build and how long can it hold it for? If it can build 15psi and drops slowly when you stop pumping air, then it should be preaty good. What are you pumping the air with?

[Blackboost]

Originally posted by fu98765
But that is the exhaust side man, not the intake side.


Rob

I know, but it's worth a look if you still can't find the leak...

[fu98765]

I can build 15psi but there is a pretty loud rush of air around the turbo area and it continues until the entire system is atmospheric. I didn't time to see how long it took for the system to depressurize. There is no nipple on my 14B, but there is one on my J pipe. I covered that up when I unplugged the MBC. I haven't repressurized the system again since I put that sealant on yesterday. I will do it again today and I'll post again. I'm using a small compressor to pressurize the system, but it works really well. I bet I could pressurize the sytem up to 20psi. I know my turbo can hit 22psi and hold it there to redline. I...uh.... sorta had that trouble when I first had my DP put on and I was trying to race a friend.:P


Rob

[fu98765]

It appears to be coming out of the J-pipe flange. I'm too lazy right now and it is so cold outside I think I'll leave it for a while. I think I'll just put 800 layers of sealant on it one of these days. Oh, btw it can hold 13psi w/ the compressor I was using. It can hold 22psi with 14b. I know. :P


Rob

[nano]

Good to know you found your leak. Silicone might not resist the high preasure. Use JB weld, works wonders.

[fu98765]

I want to be able to romove the J pipe someday. Isn't JB Weld going to help make removing the J Pipe a pain in the ass?



Rob

[Gopherhog]

Yeah... that'd tend to make the J-pipe and turbo 1 piece. But he's right. JB weld is some schweet stuff.

[nano]

ooopss.. I didn't think about that.. he he.. I think the Jpipe in a 14B bolts up to it so silicone should be ok. Dosen't mitsu sell a gasket for it too?

[97TSiAWD]

I used RTV to seal the connection between my big 16G and J-pipe, that's what RRE recommended. It was good enough to hold 30+psi with the intake leak tester I used (the tank was a bit too full and my friend didn't check the pressure- ended up blowing the leak tester off the turbo instead off blowing a IC pipe off).

-Jon

[fu98765]

That is what I used, the RVT sealant, but I don't think I put it on there very well.


Rob

[fu98765]

I just used some calculator on the internet to calculate my HP for that 89mph run. Looks like I have 180hp to the wheels. Not bad I guess? :dunno: What is the approx. stock HP to the wheels?


I was reading up on boost creeps last night and it appears as it boost leaks can cause a car to leak.


How is that possible? I don't understand how a boost leak can cause boost creep. Pressure is pressure.


Rob

[nano]

I don't see how a boost leak can cause boost creap. Unless the leak is at the wastegate signal. Show us where you got this info. Stock WHP is in the 150 to 160WHP for AWD. A stock 2g auto traps about 87mph, you're making a little more power then that. Either way you should be doing much better with your mods.

[fu98765]

I was reading this thread last night:

http://www.dsmsource.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=75888


I'm scared to see that one guy with a 16G and the turbo exhaust setup that I plan to have as soon, as I get my turbo housing from Team RIP, still has boost creep!!!!http://users.superford.org/gopherhog/Smilies/eek.gif


How can that freaking be?!!!! It mus tbe his boost controller. I think my turbo housing will solve it though. I'm going to do some final porting on the thing to make sure it solves my problem.


Yeah my car "should" be a lot faster. I can't wait until I can go WOT again.http://users.superford.org/gopherhog/Smilies/burnout.gif

Oh, one more thing, how well does the stock J pipe gasket work? I think that is how I'm going to solve my J-Pipe leak problem. I don't really want to use JB weld. Of course, I do plan to keep this turbo until it dies.

[Gopherhog]

I can arrange an untimely death, if you wish...

You know how to contact me. :rudolph:

[nano]

I had two buddys who had bad creep problems with the big16G and full 3" turbo backs. They had ported O2s, 7cm ported turbine housing, and bigger then normal flapper. Well they couldn't figure out why they got so much creep. It ended up being the flapper wasn't big enough. We ported the living hell out of the flapper hole, as big as we could, and it totally iliminated creep. So i'd say a probperly sized 34mm flapper is very necessary if you wan't to prevent creep as much as possible.

[nano]

I couldn't find a part where it said that exhaust leaks caused boost creep though.

[Gopherhog]

from the other thread:

check for boost leaks first

i know for a fact on my car i was creeping, then tested for leaks, found 8 of em. fixed them all. no creep what so ever

I still don't understand why this would cause creep... but *shrug*

[fu98765]

He must have had a leak at the boost controller line or something. That can be the only explaination.


Yeah, when I said I was going to do any last minute porting before I put it in, that's what I meant. Just in case they forgot to overlook the fact that there was too much meat around the flapper door. I plan to port the WG hole as much as I can and make sure there is full movement of the flapper door.


Rob

[Mr96GSX408]

well

back in the day, when i only had my n1 3" catback, w/ stock downpipe and cat, with 16~17 psi spiking on my t-25 with all the free mods, supra SMIC, 1g throttle body, and k&n intake, i hit a dissappointing 15.2 and 15.3 avg @ 87mph being my best times at sears point raceway in sacramento. my 60 foot was 2.2 - 2.3 secs i think avg.

believe me, it was on tape and my buddies that thought my auto gsx was slow 17 sec car was totally suprised.

now i just installed a t28 killer and im getting major boost creep too... (stopped gassing it when it hit 20psi) it wasn't ported, and everyone i talked to on dsmtuners recommended an upgraded aftermarket o2 housing.

u guys think that'll help? or should i just get a external wastegate?

[nano]

Just port as much as you can from the wastegate hole and it should fix your problem..

[Fuse9Watt]

Several people in this thread complained about low stalls with the stock TC. but 2500? Are you SURE??? i used to think mine only went that far... then one night i got guts and held it longer, only to find after a moment of hesitation it rose to 3200... And it was then that i finally understood how f'in cool AWD launches are.

Double check ya'll, 2500 is way low.

it takes me about 3 seconds to get to 3200, and there is about a second of hesitation at 2500 before it climbs any higher :D

-Jon

[Mr96GSX408]

Originally posted by nano
Just port as much as you can from the wastegate hole and it should fix your problem..

Well, the thing is is that I am a full time student and I don't have the time or facility to rip off everything just to port the wastegate passage. I do however, have time to get a o2 eliminator downpipe and replace the one I have on right now. That should help with reducing boost creep shouldn't it?

[nano]

it'll help but a lot of times it isn't enough to get rid boost creep completly.